Shadow Warrior Rework Feedback

[mytreds]

Destro gets three class buffs without reciprocation to their respective mirrors and everything is ok.

One Order class gets a buff (to a basement class) and it’s the end of the world.

Just look at the forums. How many threads are about Order classes being OP compared to Destro? Where is the bias at?

[Valantine]

I not even sure this looks like a nerf. BHA gets scaled down and FA gets scaled up by a good margin. I'd be curious to see if they still feel stupidly broken to those being hit by this new combo.

I guess time will tell--if the 4-6 SW's per scenario start becoming 1-2 again, its probably safe to say it worked.

[Uchoo]

I not even sure this looks like a nerf. BHA gets scaled down and FA gets scaled up by a good margin. I'd be curious to see if they still feel stupidly broken to those being hit by this new combo.

I guess time will tell--if the 4-6 SW's per scenario start becoming 1-2 again, its probably safe to say it worked.

I look forward to testing Enchanted Arrows burst.

[Foofmonger]

I not even sure this looks like a nerf. BHA gets scaled down and FA gets scaled up by a good margin. I'd be curious to see if they still feel stupidly broken to those being hit by this new combo.

I guess time will tell--if the 4-6 SW's per scenario start becoming 1-2 again, its probably safe to say it worked.

Probably a slight nerf. FA has a 10 second cooldown and 65ft range, whereas BHA has no cooldown and a 100ft range.

Overall damage should be similar, just won't be able to spam it as easily or as safely.

[Foofmonger]

Destro gets three class buffs without reciprocation to their respective mirrors and everything is ok.

One Order class gets a buff (to a basement class) and it’s the end of the world.

Just look at the forums. How many threads are about Order classes being OP compared to Destro? Where is the bias at?

The hyperbole from both sides is an issue that doesn't have any positive impacts on class balance overall. Both sides whine, claim bias, claim dev bias, claim their classes are UP and others are OP, it's quite entertaining because they are basically the exact same arguments just regurgitated from ones associated "party" or "tribe". Half the time I can barely tell who is whining from what side, as they all sound exactly the same just "insert class name here" and it's the same argument.

The truth is that neither of these hyperbolic arguments are close to correct. There is no big conspiracy, no massive dev bias, just a small dev team trying to figure out how to balance the game better.

I for one, as a Destro player, celebrate RSW buffs, they were sorely needed. I also celebrate the Marauder damage buffs, they were also sorely needed. Being aware of our own individual biases can allow us to attempt to mollify them to a degree.

Neither Order nor Destro is OP or UP, as this is not how class balance works. Certain classes, specs, and abilities may be over-tuned, some may be undertuned. There is a lot of nuance to sift through. Just because a single spec on a class is strong (or medicore) doesn't make the rest of the class viable either, again, there is more nuance that needs to be analyzed.

As it pertains to this specific topic on RSW, here's what I can tell from analyzing a variety of discussion on this topic

1. RSWs were underperforming, but as per high RR RSWs players, not as badly as commonly assumed. People assumed they were worse than they were, but they weren't exactly "good" in all circumstances, especially at larger player volumes (wb+ play).
2. The changes in general improved SW damage, at the expense of "ability to apply that damage (range)". This made the Skirmish SW more high risk/high reward, which could be considered a nerf or a buff dependent on the content that the Skirm SW is played in.
3. In general, Destro players just screaming "OP", which may or may not be the case for certain aspects of the RSW buffs. As we've seen some of the initial RSW re-work design was OP (the original morale drain, the BHA scaling), that being said, I would imagine it's not as doom and gloom as many Destro players like to pretend it is though.
4. Higher RR SW players are generally :-/ with the changes. There are good and bad with them. Newer/lowered RRed SW players are generally with the changes, as they may not have had the BIS gear to optimize damage before so they actually feel more impactful now. Higher RR Destro players are generally :-/ with the changes, more or less aligned with the higher RR SW players, it's really not that big of an impact. Lower RR destro players are generally with the changes, as they don't necessarily want to have to adapt/get better gear to deal with the increase in RDPS being thrown at them.

[Valantine]

Thats a reasonable take, but also expecting a SW ability string to not do 7k damage in 3 seconds is also reasonable, skirmish AOE God build aside.

Thats why I said dmg should come down around 15-20% at the MOST. They dont need a huge hammer, just a reasonable scale back. I'm logging in now, so we'll see.

[Foofmonger]

Thats a reasonable take, but also expecting a SW ability string to not do 7k damage in 3 seconds is also reasonable, skirmish AOE God build aside.

Thats why I said dmg should come down around 15-20% at the MOST. They dont need a huge hammer, just a reasonable scale back. I'm logging in now, so we'll see.

Certainly, just because a class could use buffs doesn't make the output of the devs choices the correct course of action, nor does it mean that the devs can't refine or tweak further to achieve the desired levels of balance.

If the SW is overtuned due to the buffs, it should be tuned to be appropriate. I just don't have a personal opinion on the subject.

[istvar]

3X 1.3k cross slash + 1.3k fell the weak during SM KD and spirit debuff....5.2k dmg in 2 gcd during vengeance.
but ofc if it's not aoe it's not considered viable or good on this server

[Manatikik]

3X 1.3k cross slash + 1.3k fell the weak during SM KD and spirit debuff....5.2k dmg in 2 gcd during vengeance.
but ofc if it's not aoe it's not considered viable or good on this server

I dont think anyone would run FtW and Crosscut because thats a terrible build and cant run enough tactics to do decent damage... If you're gonna complain about something try to at least make it coherent and logical.

[istvar]

3X 1.3k cross slash + 1.3k fell the weak during SM KD and spirit debuff....5.2k dmg in 2 gcd during vengeance.
but ofc if it's not aoe it's not considered viable or good on this server

I dont think anyone would run FtW and Crosscut because thats a terrible build and cant run enough tactics to do decent damage... If you're gonna complain about something try to at least make it coherent and logical.

Tell that to the SW and SM that did just that to me yesterday. SW was playing in close range waiting for SM to KD. SW name was Fenryl or something like it. Please log on and tell him his spec is bad so I don’t get instagibbed during KD duration anymore.

Now I don’t know the first thing about SW builds and what is good or bad but if you want to flame me at least make sure you flame me for something I did rather than just being an arrogant **** jumping to conclusions.

Now if being able to do that kind of dmg with 2 abilities every 5 seconds during Vengeance with CD reduction up on Order side than I am somewhat lost for words and I dread to think what “burst” would be considered good on order