Return of Reckoning

Huurl wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2020 1:59 pm I forgot the name of the tactic that gave 5% crit chance by Blood Lust/Accusation... but it is painfully missing.
Going for AOE do not feel like the point or a solution. Lot of toons can have single build or aoe build (Sorc/BW, Choppa/slayer, etc.) that's fine and allow you to adjut your gameplay regarding the situation if you are going for Orvr, city, scenarii...
WE/WH can't do that since the Aoe options will always be less efficient. And that's fine as long you can have threatening single target burst. Unfortunatelly now any player who is able to detaunt has nothing to fear from a WE/WH...
WE/WH are light mdps who "kill or die". Nowadays to die is really easy (melee and light armor guarded or not) while to kill is absurdly difficult.

It saddens me since I played WE since release but I reroll sorc now to be usefull to my mate.

Aurandilaz wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2020 3:26 pm The question remains, why do majority of classes have access to both good ST+AoE pressure builds, and others have to do with just ST builds.
Or maybe that would not be a problem if the WE/WH ST dmg pressure was miles ahead of the ST pressure the other 6 melee classes provide (including MSH and ASW).

anarchypark wrote: Fri Jun 05, 2020 7:58 am stealth + aoe? nice.

Wdova wrote: Fri Jun 05, 2020 7:14 am

Marawo wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2020 12:47 pm ... 2-3k hp every 10 sec DG and 2-3k hp twice over a TbP channel (TbP procs bullets twice) every 8 sec.

This is such a nice theory crafting. Wet dream where one unguarded and unhealed WH/WE force warband to turn and melt single and unkilable light armor mdps with 2-3k self heal each 10 seconds.

wargrimnir wrote: Wed Jun 03, 2020 4:01 pm

Deifact wrote: Wed Jun 03, 2020 3:33 pm

wargrimnir wrote: Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:05 pm There's no buffs on the horizon for either class mirror.

Just out of interest, is this because the classes don't need any or because there is a lack of resources/ other projects are seen as more important?

Every class could use a little something if we dig into them. Other priorities are up first. We have some backlog already and adding more can be distracting. My statement wasn't to dismiss any discussion on them, but to set expectations that we're not likely to make significant changes in the near future.

velenne wrote: Tue Jun 09, 2020 5:54 pm

wargrimnir wrote: Wed Jun 03, 2020 4:01 pm

Deifact wrote: Wed Jun 03, 2020 3:33 pm

Just out of interest, is this because the classes don't need any or because there is a lack of resources/ other projects are seen as more important?

Every class could use a little something if we dig into them. Other priorities are up first. We have some backlog already and adding more can be distracting. My statement wasn't to dismiss any discussion on them, but to set expectations that we're not likely to make significant changes in the near future.

That makes me super sad. There have been several lively discussions recently in the Empire forum about the sad state of WH, with lots of great feedback and ideas, especially as it pertains to the unclear vision of the class.

Marawo wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2020 1:56 pm What WE/WH actually need is a better campaign.
Currently there is almost no campaign impact in regular zones from ganking enemy players while a siege is going on because there is no meaningful supply deterioration once a keep hit their 2 star (as attacker) or 3star (as defender) benchmark. It's also way to easy to circumvent being stopped from getting to the keep due to the "lol just release inside keep" effect.
Regular zones make up the majority of the rvr campaign and most of this time is spent in largescale fights or sieges rendering ganking/smallscale as a very unimpactful playstyle which WE/WH are catered towards to. Removing the ability to just release inside keep after the siege started would provide so much potential to make a meaningful difference in the siege outcome for a gankclass who has very little use compared to other classes in the actual siege.

wargrimnir wrote: Tue Jun 09, 2020 6:07 pm
One of the common things that people seem to spin around on is a desire to have some AOE focused build. We've dismissed that in the past, it's simply not a function that WH or WE performs outside of a few abilities. One such ability was quietly used in combination with a bug, that's what set off a lot of people to start their forum threads about poor balance. Many other conversations about building class identity are far more interesting to follow, but this AOE stuff always comes up. I feel if I were to jump into each thread to crush that desire we wouldn't get nearly as much conversation related to other aspects of the class.

When we do eventually get around to a balance pass for WH/WE, chances are the people who have kept a measured response to the state of the class will be listened to over doomsayers. WE/WH really excels in one thing, stealth. No one else has that one thing, nothing comes close to it. It's not a function that will put them over the top in 6v6, it's not a function that has strong demand in the current warband meta, but it's still a uniquely powerful ability, and core to the class identity. AOE is certainly not. That's broadly why we're comfortable with the (perhaps situationally underpeforming) state of the class, although again, anything could have improvements made when we get a chance to focus on them.