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Re: Busting two myths about BG
Posted: Thu May 07, 2020 3:40 pm
by Vayra
Omegus wrote: Thu May 07, 2020 3:12 pm
Vayra wrote: Thu May 07, 2020 3:02 pm
Omegus wrote: Thu May 07, 2020 3:00 pm
Regarding #2, please can you do a .getstats with the buff at maximum and show what the reduced chance to be crit is? This could just be a display bug with the character sheet.
It's not a display bug, it's an intended change on RoR from a few years back. Stupid as ****, but intended.
After much digging I found where the change happened:
viewtopic.php?f=42&t=21241. This is the kind of **** that needs to be on the wiki. This even happened before the wiki was updated. Random changes that go against how everything usually works must be documented properly with the tooltips clearly stating it. Much like the armour buff stacking with other buffs (why??).
Thanks for digging up the patch notes for it. As for the armor buff, not sure why it stacks, but it did on live too.
Re: Busting two myths about BG
Posted: Thu May 07, 2020 3:50 pm
by Zxul
Vayra wrote: Thu May 07, 2020 3:40 pm
Thanks for digging up the patch notes for it. As for the armor buff, not sure why it stacks, but it did on live too.
Taking a guess, because any armor buff which doesn't stacks with armor pot is 100% useless (unless you are somehow trying to make a thorns pot spec work), and snb bgs need at least some reason to spec the 13 points ability.
Re: Busting two myths about BG
Posted: Thu May 07, 2020 3:52 pm
by TreefAM
The armor buff doesn't stack with pots, but it stacks with things like squig armor.
Re: Busting two myths about BG
Posted: Thu May 07, 2020 4:02 pm
by Foofmonger
Omegus wrote: Thu May 07, 2020 1:55 pm
popperz wrote: Thu May 07, 2020 1:50 pm
Omegus wrote: Thu May 07, 2020 1:44 pm
This is probably the only flat crit modifier that is multiplicative rather than additive though.
I am afraid to test Crush the Weak. I will just leave it untested. I want to believe I make an impact on enemy's dps.
You do... it's just that the impact could be -4% crit in real terms rather than -20%
I'm curious to know if the Marauder's 10% increase to be critically hit (the penalty on Feeding on Fear tactic) is multiplicative on a class that can stack crazy init. 10% chance to be crit plus this tactic should be 20% chance to be crit... but what if it's just 11% instead?
Last test I did FoF was additive, I can re-test later after work.
Re: Busting two myths about BG
Posted: Thu May 07, 2020 4:20 pm
by Vayra
PieTreBlu wrote: Thu May 07, 2020 3:36 pm
But aren't the skills working as intended? Didn't they change CtW/Kneecapper to be % based themselves? Makes no sense to me.
They should be additive. A 20% reduction in crit chance multiplicative is really weak. And a -45% chance to be crit on self is either entirely useless (tank will have 0% chance anyway so it does literally nothing), or detrimental as they can be below 0% and taking away 45% from -5% chance to be crit might put you at -2.75% chance to be crit instead depending on how they implemented it. But I don't have the time to properly test that.
Re: Busting two myths about BG
Posted: Fri May 08, 2020 4:06 am
by Nebuchadnezzar
If you read the wording on the tooltips of both FoF and CtW, it becomes more obvious that the two could work differently
FoF - 45% less likely to be critically hit
CtW - Critical chance reduced 20%
CtW's tooltip clearly states that it's affecting the critical chance, whereas FoF is reducing the likelihood of a critical hit and could be interpreted as additive or multiplicative. The wording on FoF is vague and would ideally be updated. Interestingly enough though, CD uses the same wording of "10% more likely to be critical hit" but seems to be additive rather than multiplicative based on OP's testing(thankfully, otherwise it would be fairly useless)
Also OP I'm curious, how are you hitting 60% crit chance? Does the dummy have some base chance to be crit?
Re: Busting two myths about BG
Posted: Fri May 08, 2020 5:25 am
by popperz
Aye. The dummies have high percentage to be critically hit and also have no armor, which is sad of course. But for these kind of test it is fine.
Re: Busting two myths about BG
Posted: Fri May 08, 2020 6:13 am
by Omegus
Nebuchadnezzar wrote: Fri May 08, 2020 4:06 am
If you read the wording on the tooltips of both FoF and CtW, it becomes more obvious that the two could work differently
FoF - 45% less likely to be critically hit
CtW - Critical chance reduced 20%
CtW's tooltip clearly states that it's affecting the critical chance, whereas FoF is reducing the likelihood of a critical hit and could be interpreted as additive or multiplicative. The wording on FoF is vague and would ideally be updated. Interestingly enough though, CD uses the same wording of "10% more likely to be critical hit" but seems to be additive rather than multiplicative based on OP's testing(thankfully, otherwise it would be fairly useless)
Also OP I'm curious, how are you hitting 60% crit chance? Does the dummy have some base chance to be crit?
The wording for crit chance effects is all over the place. Regardless, anything modifying crit directly has always been done additively... except this one ability :/
Re: Busting two myths about BG
Posted: Fri May 08, 2020 7:04 am
by mubbl
Are you sure the anti crit of FoF is not working like this: overall chance for a crit=chance to crit of attacker+ chance to be critted by target * FoF?
Re: Busting two myths about BG
Posted: Fri May 08, 2020 7:12 am
by Omegus
mubbl wrote: Fri May 08, 2020 7:04 am
Are you sure the anti crit of FoF is not working like this: overall chance for a crit=chance to crit of attacker+ chance to be critted by target * FoF?
Check the screenshot in the OP.