[Malus] Any evidence it is actually doing what you intended it to do?

[kauyon1]

Was the intention for people to log on to the opposing realm, or was the intention for the Zerg to split up and go to different realms?

I think the problem here is if you are going to apply Malus for being the larger numbers, you need benefits to incentivize players to switch zones if that's the intention.

This is the question I would like to have an answer for too. Its not feasible to switch when doing so erases contribution, making ones time spent on the zerging side pointless. If the intention is to stop me from playing populated zone then yeah I might go try the other open zone but that just usually means playing a zone with max 10 ppl in it which is fun for no one except solo roamers, and is unlikely to result in a siege or lock while I am logged on, which means I won’t get max contribution. My point is that this was tried on live to get ppl to other open zones and ppl don’t break up from “main” zone.

IMO I think live had a slightly different problem. People wanted bags because it was the only way to get the gear. And they wanted easy pushes through zones and most of the time each side would avoid each other. Order would zerg Dwarf, and Destro would zerg Elf as an example. AAO really fixed that. It was an "Incentive" to be where the action is.

Here, though some players want their bags, they can't really get it just zerging uncontested. And in ROR all maps are not open which is a more NA problem.

I think Malus is to stop Zerging in one zone. But I think it's not to switch sides to join the other to level it out, it's to make you switch zones. Which means you need malus for the zerg, but a temporary mechanic (call it "Hero" buff) that gives you AAO like buffs for a temporary amount of time to leave the zerged zone and go to the less populated one.

[Luuca]

I can only speak from the point of view of a NA Prime/Late Night player. So filter my response accordingly.

What I see in the ORVR Lakes since Malus has been introduced:

1. There is only one T4 zone open at a time during NA Prime/Late night weekdays

2. More Populated Realm (MPR) takes and holds BOs

. a. If near equal numbers, blob v blob at BOs
. i. Realm with AAO enjoys RR
. ii. Realm without gets 1 RR per kill (near equal Blob vs Blob)
. iii. If not near equal numbers, little action
. b. Some war camp and major artery camping by both blobs

3. At 1 Star for more populated realm

. a. MPR realm spawns ram and cannon (singular)
. b. All MPR PuG warbands move to keep
. c. Underpopulated Realm (UPR) defends outer door and uses postern play
. d. 2 or 3 6-man UPR groups roam during first door
. i. Gank solo players running to defend or AFK at BOs
. ii. Gank 2-some, 3-some low CR opposition soaking at BOs

4. Outer Door Down

. a. UPR all but abandons Keep
. b. UPR blob roams during second door using 12-24+ players to kill
. i. Solo players running to join keep attack or AFK at BOs
. ii. 6-man roam groups from MPR or low CR OPR soaking at BOs
. iii. Zerging areas of known low pop in lake for maximum rewards

5. When Keep Lord is at 10%

. a. UPR all but leaves zone - some small groups stay
. b. OPR Takes Keep
. i. Diminished RR for Keep Take
. ii. Lower gear rolls due to army size

The UPR, as I have seen it, consists of organized 6-man groups of higher renow ranked players and loosely organized, unfull PuG warbands. I see many organized 6-man groups running together in groups of 12, usually followed by some solo stragglers or the incomplete warband PuGs. They are not stupid. They know that blobbing up on BO AFKers and player/groups trying to get to the keep pays dividends with AAO. I call these players Malus Farmers (MFers for short) They abuse the malus system because they know that the actual MPR and its warband players have ABSOLUTELY NO INCENTIVE to leave the keep (their source of bag rolls and chunk of renown) and go kill the UPR players.

UPR players getting 400+ Renown per kill simply blob onto any lit BO, camp the routes to the keep for MPR stragglers/respawners and reap the rewards. If the MPR did leave the keep and send a 6-man, or 12-man to go kill the UPR players, they get 1 Renown per kill; AKA Nothing.

So answer me this; Why would anyone who finds themselves on the MPR even bother to do any ORvR Roaming and killing? Sitting BOs as a Blob early in the zone till 1-Star will net you some renown and gain contribution, Taking out the first door will net you some renown from defenders and door (if you are on ram), and finally door contribution and Keep Lord Damage contribution/healing, then back to the BOs to lock the zone gets a few more ticks. Go fight the MFers? Why?

The Malus system has created, in NA Prime/Late night as I see it, a toxic atmosphere wherein the MFers and 'gamers" of the Malus system are reaping the reward of not only increased renown gains, increased zone lock rewards, but also easier fights as they ignore the keep defense and focus on blobbing low CR/RR players soaking at BOs, or roaming 6-man or smaller groups. The way I see it, I have no good reason to go out "roaming" in a RVR Lake if the other side has AAO and I have Malus. Even if the fight is a dead even 6v6 at a BO on the other side of the map, leagues away from the MPR "Zerg" I still get 1 Renown per kill while the UPR 6-man would get increased rewards.

[Luuca]

Remove Malus. It is not working and never will. It punishes 6 mans who fight equal or greater numbers, it rewards the underdog side ignoring the objectives and simply farming 6mans with malus who are NOT part of the zerg, and has no beneficial effects in the game at all.

[Dammy095]

malus is best change ever, love it
if you gathering 6man on zerging side and other side has 80-100 aao, then its your fault, gather 6 man there

[Manatikik]

malus is best change ever, love it
if you gathering 6man on zerging side and other side has 80-100 aao, then its your fault, gather 6 man there

Just speaking for myself, I don’t like playing the other side very much. I don’t like the aesthetics of Destro WC ( wtf is up with the poop tower?) and prefer my Order classes play style more. Why should I be punished for playing my faction instead of just rewarding people playing underdog (the point of AAo). I’m a firm believer in carrot over stick though.

[Dammy095]

malus is best change ever, love it
if you gathering 6man on zerging side and other side has 80-100 aao, then its your fault, gather 6 man there

Just speaking for myself, I don’t like playing the other side very much. I don’t like the aesthetics of Destro WC ( wtf is up with the poop tower?) and prefer my Order classes play style more. Why should I be punished for playing my faction instead of just rewarding people playing underdog (the point of AAo). I’m a firm believer in carrot over stick though.

i can speak for myself too, i was exactly same, playing only destro and refusing to play order for aestetics reason
now i play both and swithch depending on population, its 2019 after all
its really boring to play on overpopulated side, either destro or order, doesnt matter

[Acidic]

From my point of view this is doing exactly the opposite of what is planned.
When in eu time there is order blobbed in its standard mega Zerg there are no order in the other zones so even when destro outnumber them there is no useful alternative.
Last Sunday we were in Praag and there was AAO for order there was massive lag due to numbers in zone . We swapped zone only to find it very empty and Malus caused so that we got little to no reward for moving zone as no order would leave their blob.

I would suggest that the malus should get suspended if one zone reaches a total player count of 300 or so when the lag starts to be felt

[Luuca]

malus is best change ever, love it
if you gathering 6man on zerging side and other side has 80-100 aao, then its your fault, gather 6 man there

The problem with your assertion is this:

The underdog side gains more from roaming in 12man gank groups than from playing the objectives in the game. Time was defending the keep, taking BOs for ticks and killing players added up to good renown with AAO or Without. Now, with Malus, the underdogs ignore the objectives, do not defend the keep, and ONLY roam killing outside the warcamp and routes to the keep.

If ORVR is the focus of this game, and the "small group" game is secondary, then Malus is contrary to the goals of the Devs in RoR.

Malus PUNISHES players in game-designed warbands working towards game-designed objectives. It rewards gank groups NOT playing the game-designed elements. It has been seen, by me, how underdog groups in NA Prime use T2 and T3 zones with easily accessible PvE zones to manipulate AAO gains by leaving the lake with 100 AAO, waiting 5 minutes in PvE, and coming back into the game with 200 AAO.

If this type of punishment for playing the game as designed, rewarding players for ignoring the objectives as the game has been designed, and allowing manipulation of AAO rewards continues, more players will simply move on.

If, on the other hand, Malus is removed, and rewards for kills are normalized for the larger force, it may provide an incentive for the larger force to lose some 6-mans from the main force in favor of roaming for kills. As it stands now, with Malus in play, there in absolutely NO INCENTIVE to break off from the main zerg force at all.. literally ALL THE REWARDS are from taking BOs and Keeps.

To answer your question as to why I don't swap sides. I can honestly say I have done this. I have a 40-65 Chosen and a 40-64 DoK and I tired it for 3 weeks. I found good groups, but could not abide the manipulation of the AAO through PvE sitting nor the 12 v 2 warcamp/bo slaughtering that fed the RR addiction.

Again, I play in NA prime/late night and it sucks.