Return of Reckoning

Wosh wrote: Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:51 pm

peterthepan3 wrote: Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:25 pm It's on the to-do list, but we are taking time as we do not want to make the classes OP: damage buffs to Wrath would mandate reducing their healing significantly, as we would essentially be cementing them as a DPS with said buffs; no DPS should be able to provide powerful offheals/rez etc. The 15-pt abilities will be scrutinized accordingly - should we decide to opt for a certain path..

If your going to take away the healing part when you invest in wrath then it Can only mean your going to control the prayers giveing then Buffs and debuffs.

Have you considered that your createing barriers between the diffrent trees?

Have you considered that not every WP wants to be a DPS *****, some of use would rather heal? That your playstyle for a class is by no means the majority or even a minority opinion and that in your single minded drive (this is one of many posts by you on this topic) you are essentially trying to make the class fit your playstyle rather than your playstyle fit the class?

Shalktonin wrote: Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:51 pm

Wosh wrote: Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:51 pm

peterthepan3 wrote: Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:25 pm It's on the to-do list, but we are taking time as we do not want to make the classes OP: damage buffs to Wrath would mandate reducing their healing significantly, as we would essentially be cementing them as a DPS with said buffs; no DPS should be able to provide powerful offheals/rez etc. The 15-pt abilities will be scrutinized accordingly - should we decide to opt for a certain path..

If your going to take away the healing part when you invest in wrath then it Can only mean your going to control the prayers giveing then Buffs and debuffs.

Have you considered that your createing barriers between the diffrent trees?

Have you considered that not every WP wants to be a DPS *****, some of use would rather heal? That your playstyle for a class is by no means the majority or even a minority opinion and that in your single minded drive (this is one of many posts by you on this topic) you are essentially trying to make the class fit your playstyle rather than your playstyle fit the class?

Question, if you are speccing into wrath what are you attempting to do?

So far he has only stated making wrath a dps, grace being a front line healer, and has hardly made any comments on salvation. Also in this thread it was even specifically stated by ptp3 that there will be a community input thread on what it means to be wrath before they even begin the discussions on warrior priest in the think tank. So I would suggest knocking it off with the Ad Hominem attacks.

Ramasee wrote: Fri Oct 12, 2018 3:52 pm

Shalktonin wrote: Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:51 pm

Wosh wrote: Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:51 pm

If your going to take away the healing part when you invest in wrath then it Can only mean your going to control the prayers giveing then Buffs and debuffs.

Have you considered that your createing barriers between the diffrent trees?

Have you considered that not every WP wants to be a DPS *****, some of use would rather heal? That your playstyle for a class is by no means the majority or even a minority opinion and that in your single minded drive (this is one of many posts by you on this topic) you are essentially trying to make the class fit your playstyle rather than your playstyle fit the class?

Question, if you are speccing into wrath what are you attempting to do?

So far he has only stated making wrath a dps, grace being a front line healer, and has hardly made any comments on salvation. Also in this thread it was even specifically stated by ptp3 that there will be a community input thread on what it means to be wrath before they even begin the discussions on warrior priest in the think tank. So I would suggest knocking it off with the Ad Hominem attacks.

I wouldn't call that Ad Hominem, but what ever.

The solution stated is not a good one. Mainly because the statement presents there is no other solution - which simply is not true. You do not need to control everything through "stances" just because that's the only way. And I agree with Shalk, we shouldn't be blocking off trees because almost every class hybrids in some way. Going back to original AoR model before TOVL is not the answer.

Simply I think the proper answer (if ptp3 will entertain it) will probably fall with having Rend/Divine Assault being moved into the Grace Tree as a high costs tree specific ability. At that point you can buff Wrath all day long and not worry about heal back as the other melee heal isn't going to provide that much. It would also solidify the Grace as the sole melee healer, and then you wouldn't be able to use Wrath as a BiS DPS/Healer for PVE. It would certainly change leveling a WP/DOK from what we all knew because DA/Rend are early essentials. But the reality is it is that Ability that OPs the DPS versions of the classes. Why should WPs be the only class soloing normal & hard PQs while leveling? It's that sole ability that throws everything off balance for working in the trees. It should be Grace specific and then wrath/salv still have a melee/heal available if small dmg/heals are needed.

Did WP prayer proc's (righteous prayer) ever benefit from the +25% damage -20% healing tactic (divine fury) not sure of its name?

[General]
- Procs no longer benefits from increased damage % stats.

Honestly if the Wrath tree lost it's ability to heal I'd prob not play it. The great thing about wrath IS the ability to do okay damage, but to also heal THROUGH that damage. Making you amazing if you can stay up and keep swinging, but as soon as you get knocked down without a tank you're toast. Grace is okay atm, it's gone from being a melee healer to more of a tanky melee healer. The damage is ekh at best but you will defiantly be hard to kill and don't need to worry so much about what's in front of you, pop your detaunt on the backline and charge through to hit them or go after the dps hitting your healers and reduce the healing on the attacker to whittle them down.

Wrath should be able to heal but it's team wide healing and focused casted heals should be nerfed. But it should focus on doing high damage and having the ability to heal yourself or a defensive target through your damage. It also needs a solution to the detaunt. It's great, but with the AOE spell that is pretty important to DPS. Casting it will remove most of your detaunt and make you vulnerable. I'm not sure if this is the case but I'm not sure if ticks act as a hit removing a detaunt, it shouldn't if it's already on the character. And I think the damage aura should also proc with crits. ATM there are too few abilities to take advantage of the crits heal and do additional damage tactic. IMHO.

Hi

@25 I'm sure they are looking into the loss of Sigmars Radiance and the lack of damage on divine strike, I'm sure devs are aware that, that Divine Strike is the lowest hitting melee ability in the game for the WP. It used to be Sigmars Fist that was the lowest hitting ability and my view has always been fine with that since it has been compensating with a buff.

See link here for reference (watch chat box not toon)
https://imgur.com/a/Q6I2EaZ

There is a bit of healing coming from the guilty soul tactic, as you can see on this screen the heals from the divine strike is of such small significance that it's not really worth using the skill. But you gotta think of guilty soul like this, its something you spread over the battlefield thru smite and soul fire. If it sticks on multiple people you get multiple heal and build up your umphf

The linked screenshot shows the problem you're referring to and I also acknowledge that if dots break the intimidating repent or repent for that matter, it is a problem. If smite or the soul fire skill, is fired after a repent was in effect, it should be cancelling that repent effect when the first damage ticks on target no doubt. But a repent caster after a dot is applied is a smart way to use repent and should be the standard, hence it should not break 2 sec. after when the dot ticks again.

However don't give up guys, they are looking into the implementations of the BucklerClub build. We can be sure the team is working behind the scenes and are aware. The change to Sigmars radiance is a problem, 2handed WP's are dealing with now. But perhaps we should try and come up with an idea to make Sigmars Radiance a hallmark for grace spec.

Maybe we can all give some ideas on how the idea/concept of a buckler wielding warrior priest can be improved. Perhaps instead of being a requirement for Sigmars Radiance skill, the buckler could buff the skill as that skill is still lacking. Maybe it becomes an AOE out of group healing if you have a buckler, provides a buff, shield, etc. something to make it better with a bucker.

Some idea on the buckler perhaps to boost and make it better/different/smarter etc. that is reasonable of course (hahaha, NOT).

I noticed that the main problem of grace is getting kited and on contact with classes that use shields to absorb damage his damage with. I'm looked a bit into the kiteing process myself.

Anyway as I often do, daydream here comes another.

Judgement, when used with Prayer of devotion and a buckler, meant that judgement would heal the group for the damage done, provide a shield. (Maybe it would require Sigmars Grace Tactic aswell as BucklerClub, true commitment to grace and you get to truly judge people and heal a bit from distance).

Judgement, when used with Prayer of righteousness and a 2hander, meant that judgement would create a pillar of light on the target that sparks some damage on targets around the main target perhaps 5-10 feet or something that had the potential of sparking guilty soul. If we added Tactic like Guilty Soul into the equation, so that the main target was getting guilty soul debuff this would perhaps give the WP some healing he could stack up a bit before he rushes in. I can see a potential here guys!!!

Judgement, when used with Prayer of Aboslution and a book, meant that judgement would create a shield vs. melee or toughness his armour or buff him against whatever that BookClub is missing. Perhaps a synergy that heals outside of group around the WP or the target similar to martyrs ... HELP ME OUT!

Even if...and because it's all too much and what not. How about, the judgement skill just had a 100% chance to proc the prayer the WP was using. Devotion prayer does give a nice healing. 250-300 healing pr. GCD, it would not be bad on the range. Also, judgement with righteous prayer guaranteed is pretty nasty vs. ranged as a WP if it had a guaranteed proc you would not be so easily kited without being able to hurt them back. And absolution I just don't know guys, sorry, a shield, or what are you missing, ability to run away?. Could we use one of your tactics, the shield, cleanse something perhaps?

Honourable members of the BookClub, solve it please.

And a very quick note but something that really needs attention.

Our cleanses needs to remove a stack of whatever debuff we are hit with on the battlefield.

Cleanse has a 5 sec CD and removes 1 dot but not the stack of the dot type. So when two players who play the class Dr. Von DeathDot you die, you melt, you wither, you freeze, you simply have no chance to remove the dots fast enough. 10 GCD's to remove 1 DOT, well you do the math I can't imagine that other classes do not also suffer from "trains" that use dots to kill with. A simple way was to have cleansed remove the dot and its stack.

NEEDS URGENT ATTENTION!

auzzibear wrote: Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:48 pm i think its fair to balance around having a guard, because its a group game and in a group, you should be able to get a guard.

with a guard, you're a god mode durable frontline with great group heals. without it, you're an average frontline that has to play carefully and cant always be in the thick of it. its like slayer. with a guard, a slayer is a monster. without one, well...then its just not worth bringing.

I'm scared that balancing around individual classes will make things unbalanced. imagine a WP with guard given a free aoe detaunt without speccing. you'd be able to spec some into salv, getting the group HoT and bubble and group cleanse. the survivability and group utility would be too much, not to mention very solid sustain damage. I think the trade off for needing to spec into wrath is valid.

In regards to the repent/soulfire/guiltysoul and DOT in general debate - You do realise that you're giving up a tactic slot to have intimidating repent and that we are talking about carefully planning when to apply the dot and the repent skill for it to work semi. and the main skill this would concern is a 9-sec duration that has to hit and cant stack and our repent is an ability with a 15 sec CD. Would have to cast soul fire then repent and the dots that came AFTER repent would not remove repent. This was how it functioned on live and that dot is not going to kill anyone is it 700-999 damage over 9 sec. so I find it hard to see the power in that.

If repent goes after the crime, the rependence should be given, So has SIGMAR SAID HIMSELF THAT HE SAID!

I consider it broken now, If I hit a target I and god forbid I for some reason don't wanna continue, should I have been blessed by donating a DOT to this ugly bastards face I cannot repent to my god Sigmar and I know he would normally on live take me In.

So in short guilty soul and intimidating repent are not exactly showing the kind of syngergi im hopeing for in my class considering they are in the same tree.

Is the DOT going to kill anyone? Probably not, but it is still vital damage. Plus yes in ideal situations you want to throw your repent onto the back line casters and then fight the melee. But in battle it's not always possible to keep track of who you have repented. And you don't always have time to figure out whilst fighting where to drop it without causing it to be instantly removed by your soulfire. As it stands as wrath if you use soulfire you mostly negate the worth repent has after the initial use on the backline. Which is why I think having people remember to cast their soulfire and then repent is how it should work. DOTS should not remove detaunt. Only the initial cast of an abilities hit.

auzzibear wrote: Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:48 pm i think its fair to balance around having a guard, because its a group game and in a group, you should be able to get a guard.

with a guard, you're a god mode durable frontline with great group heals. without it, you're an average frontline that has to play carefully and cant always be in the thick of it. its like slayer. with a guard, a slayer is a monster. without one, well...then its just not worth bringing.

im scared that balancing around individual classes will make things unbalanced. imagine a WP with guard given a free aoe detaunt without speccing. youd be able to spec some into salv, getting the group HoT and bubble and group cleanse. the survivability and group utility would be too much, not to mention very solid sustain damage. i think the trade off for needing to spec into wrath is valid.

The more I read this the more I doubt you know what you're talking about, tell me how are you going to heal in salvation an do very solid sustain damage? 40% debuff on healing and you now have 2 tactics left, so that is group cleanse and AOE detaunt (btw detaunt and guard don't stack, just another false statement).

Please enlighten me on how you see this "heal monster" you're talking about work and perform in reality. Because with 1400 hours on my WP I haven't been able to fit more than 4 tactics at any given point and I have also never got around the 40% healing debuff that you will be getting from divine fury and fanatism, so enlighten me on how this is possible for you and not the rest of us.

Thank you in advance for your reply!