Re: [AM] Morale 4 Funnel Energy [Close Date: 28/8]
Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 12:09 pm
The War Private Server
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1. life leech tree is not that bad after redesign.roadkillrobin wrote: ↑Sun Aug 19, 2018 12:18 pm Would probobly go for complete redesign of it instead.
1: Mastery tree is to weak to justify spending 15 points to grab it.
2: Blinding Light at M2 is much better debuff.
3: AP from potions is much more reliant.
It's not double cost........ 30+50%= 45. For allied abilities it does indeed cut cost in half though. And also let's just compare that 15 AP increase to the regen offered by a single Zealot ability. Let's say a Mara gets hit by this. Demolition costs 35AP, with the M4 up it's 52.5 AP. Zealot ritual is 50 AP guaranteed every cast, but being a 20% chance it's extremely likely to proc twice. In addition it procs once/twice more every 3 seconds from Wave of Mutilation, and on top of that even procs from AAs. You can maybe see how that 17.5 AP increase has zero impact.Tesq wrote: ↑Sun Aug 19, 2018 12:41 pm ehh, kobs have a free ap regain for all group on regen aura while also with tactic increase heals for all party, there are not only difference regarding des tools, again if zealot ritual (which i can agree ) is such a problem do a proposal for that , and not make op a m4 just because there is something to nerf on the other side , ....cleary to nerf, onto another class.
things should be balanced on their own and be affective because they are effective and not because they need to be effective to balance an OP stuff onto the other realm. This just create a spiral of opness on both sides...
a 50% ap cut /double is effective on anything, since all skill cost around a medium of 30 ap :
-so a double cost is 60 which mean in 4 skill you have finished ap completly (240/250)....
-also the m4 give half cut to your ap which mean that instead use 8 skill you can use 16......
this happen before any ap management came into play other than m4.... it clearly is a very powerfull tool as m4 give it 100 feet is not necessary.
ok for the 50% increase i was wrong is 45 not 60 tough i still not agree on the fact that a moral regardless the tier need to be super op because 1 class have 1 op skill; what you do if that class is not present in every party ? those party get destroyed by a m4....yet the moral 4 also give a benefith to your whole party / friendly target depending on the implementation influencing 6 or even 9 ppl... well ultimtely the choice os for the dev still i dont like a m4 hitting from 100 feet distance with a kind of controlling effect attached to it.lefze wrote: ↑Sun Aug 19, 2018 1:29 pmIt's not double cost........ 30+50%= 45. For allied abilities it does indeed cut cost in half though. And also let's just compare that 15 AP increase to the regen offered by a single Zealot ability. Let's say a Mara gets hit by this. Demolition costs 35AP, with the M4 up it's 52.5 AP. Zealot ritual is 50 AP guaranteed every cast, but being a 20% chance it's extremely likely to proc twice. In addition it procs once/twice more every 3 seconds from Wave of Mutilation, and on top of that even procs from AAs. You can maybe see how that 17.5 AP increase has zero impact.Tesq wrote: ↑Sun Aug 19, 2018 12:41 pm ehh, kobs have a free ap regain for all group on regen aura while also with tactic increase heals for all party, there are not only difference regarding des tools, again if zealot ritual (which i can agree ) is such a problem do a proposal for that , and not make op a m4 just because there is something to nerf on the other side , ....cleary to nerf, onto another class.
things should be balanced on their own and be affective because they are effective and not because they need to be effective to balance an OP stuff onto the other realm. This just create a spiral of opness on both sides...
a 50% ap cut /double is effective on anything, since all skill cost around a medium of 30 ap :
-so a double cost is 60 which mean in 4 skill you have finished ap completly (240/250)....
-also the m4 give half cut to your ap which mean that instead use 8 skill you can use 16......
this happen before any ap management came into play other than m4.... it clearly is a very powerfull tool as m4 give it 100 feet is not necessary.
It's clearly not a very powerful tool, otherwise it wouldn't have need any kind of tweak either. Considering other morales at the AMs disposal you will rarely pop it even at 100ft range, especially with the friendly effect no being a partywide buff. If you think the range was the only issue with it, you are completely wrong. It has a plethora of issues, the strength of the buff being one, but before any of that can be fixed it has to be made practical to use.
And again, zealot ritual possibly needing a tweak isn't something that can be taken into account when assessing the impact this skill would have with the suggested implementation. And also zealot ritual won't be changed anyways unless Aza learns how broken it is and convinces the people blocking any change to it.
First of all, we just agreed it's half as effective as you thought, and you are still calling it "super op"??Tesq wrote: ↑Sun Aug 19, 2018 2:41 pmok for the 50% increase i was wrong is 45 not 60 tough i still not agree on the fact that a moral regardless the tier need to be super op because 1 class have 1 op skill; what you do if that class is not present in every party ? those party get destroyed by a m4....yet the moral 4 also give a benefith to your whole party / friendly target depending on the implementation influencing 6 or even 9 ppl... well ultimtely the choice os for the dev still i dont like a m4 hitting from 100 feet distance with a kind of controlling effect attached to it.lefze wrote: ↑Sun Aug 19, 2018 1:29 pmIt's not double cost........ 30+50%= 45. For allied abilities it does indeed cut cost in half though. And also let's just compare that 15 AP increase to the regen offered by a single Zealot ability. Let's say a Mara gets hit by this. Demolition costs 35AP, with the M4 up it's 52.5 AP. Zealot ritual is 50 AP guaranteed every cast, but being a 20% chance it's extremely likely to proc twice. In addition it procs once/twice more every 3 seconds from Wave of Mutilation, and on top of that even procs from AAs. You can maybe see how that 17.5 AP increase has zero impact.Tesq wrote: ↑Sun Aug 19, 2018 12:41 pm ehh, kobs have a free ap regain for all group on regen aura while also with tactic increase heals for all party, there are not only difference regarding des tools, again if zealot ritual (which i can agree ) is such a problem do a proposal for that , and not make op a m4 just because there is something to nerf on the other side , ....cleary to nerf, onto another class.
things should be balanced on their own and be affective because they are effective and not because they need to be effective to balance an OP stuff onto the other realm. This just create a spiral of opness on both sides...
a 50% ap cut /double is effective on anything, since all skill cost around a medium of 30 ap :
-so a double cost is 60 which mean in 4 skill you have finished ap completly (240/250)....
-also the m4 give half cut to your ap which mean that instead use 8 skill you can use 16......
this happen before any ap management came into play other than m4.... it clearly is a very powerfull tool as m4 give it 100 feet is not necessary.
It's clearly not a very powerful tool, otherwise it wouldn't have need any kind of tweak either. Considering other morales at the AMs disposal you will rarely pop it even at 100ft range, especially with the friendly effect no being a partywide buff. If you think the range was the only issue with it, you are completely wrong. It has a plethora of issues, the strength of the buff being one, but before any of that can be fixed it has to be made practical to use.
And again, zealot ritual possibly needing a tweak isn't something that can be taken into account when assessing the impact this skill would have with the suggested implementation. And also zealot ritual won't be changed anyways unless Aza learns how broken it is and convinces the people blocking any change to it.
Keep also in mind this m4 also last 15 sec and nto 10/9 as other minor ap stuff and is also aoe + again you can stack other ap drain effect on it; the very first one is from the AM itself by slotting a tactic which make the core drain into aoe.. there is stuff which can be stack with that m4 effect to make it more efficently; as said the stackign nature of a thing requrie caution when buffing it.
it's not half... the final value is 25% less, just less effective (45 vs 60 / 15 diff is 25% of 60...), again you are appelling to another skill which is class related / specific to a fix mastery , dosent matter how much op is it dont justify overbuff other thingslefze wrote: ↑Sun Aug 19, 2018 3:04 pm
First of all, we just agreed it's half as effective as you thought, and you are still calling it "super op"??
Second point here is that the morale+a few AM aoe drains still don't make an impact. Not only is it defendable, but the tactic has half effect. And once again if you compare the added effects to the sustain on destro it still falls short. The fact is that zealot ritual alone far exceeds anything order can collectively put out in the drain departement.
Actually it is half as effective as you said, you said it increased the cost 30, it increases it by 15. It's not like the cost of the skill isn't there unless the morale is applied.Tesq wrote: ↑Sun Aug 19, 2018 4:53 pmit's not half... is 25% less effective (45 vs 60 / 15 diff is 25% of 60...), again you are appelling to another skill which is class related / specific to a fix mastery , dosent matter how much op is it dont justify overbuff other thingslefze wrote: ↑Sun Aug 19, 2018 3:04 pm
First of all, we just agreed it's half as effective as you thought, and you are still calling it "super op"??
Second point here is that the morale+a few AM aoe drains still don't make an impact. Not only is it defendable, but the tactic has half effect. And once again if you compare the added effects to the sustain on destro it still falls short. The fact is that zealot ritual alone far exceeds anything order can collectively put out in the drain departement.
if it need a nerf im sure someone can make a nerf proposal, just dont overbuff stuff. Make nerf proposal to fix the right thing instead.