Daemonic Withering/Coordinated Fire - Undefendable/Reduced CD

[Renork]

I understand the argument and it has merit consider the current state of defending attacks.

But both of the current solutions seem to be a potential buffs, just as much as they are a solution to the problem.

Solution 1 its obvious, much stronger than it ever was on live.

Solution 2 is closer to an answer, thougu if you get lucky you are going to be stronger since its going to be able to be applied to more people.

I dont know if its possible, but I think a good solution would be to reduce the CD IF it got defended. Maybe reset the CD totally or put it at 5 seconds.

That way you comensate for the defense, but dont potentially have more of these debuffs rolling than previously possible.

And what is your counter argument? Both sides have access to this ability w/tactic equipped. This ability is one of the 'staples' of the class and if we are going to use the 'live had rainbow sparkles', then don't forget that live didn't have the disrupt rate values and I personally never had a problem with landing WS.

[peterthepan3]

i don't agree with issue.
15% more dmg from all sources. it's HUGE.
it was almost mandatory tactic.
that kind of bonus need drawback.

It does have a drawback: it's on a 20 second cooldown and takes up a tactic slot. Players familiar with the Magus will know that to use up a tactic on this means you are giving up on either increased range/crit/shorter nuke from SVF/either Endless Knowledge or instapet.

spending tactic slot is not enough.
having to strikethrough are reasonable price. which you can invest.

Spending a tactic slot on a class with a range of good tactics means that it better be worth it. Why would I ever pick a 15% damage tactic if it is tied to a DoT - a DoT that deals minimal damage, has a hefty CD, and is easily defended against - when one could just pick another selfish tactic that isn't RNG-dependent (or go one extra, and bring a Sorcerer with Infernal Gift). Magus/Engineer already have a hard time fitting inside anything other than a pug farming group!


Keep the feedback coming, guys!

[adamthelc]

I understand the argument and it has merit consider the current state of defending attacks.

But both of the current solutions seem to be a potential buffs, just as much as they are a solution to the problem.

Solution 1 its obvious, much stronger than it ever was on live.

Solution 2 is closer to an answer, thougu if you get lucky you are going to be stronger since its going to be able to be applied to more people.

I dont know if its possible, but I think a good solution would be to reduce the CD IF it got defended. Maybe reset the CD totally or put it at 5 seconds.

That way you comensate for the defense, but dont potentially have more of these debuffs rolling than previously possible.

And what is your counter argument? Both sides have access to this ability w/tactic equipped. This ability is one of the 'staples' of the class and if we are going to use the 'live had rainbow sparkles', then don't forget that live didn't have the disrupt rate values and I personally never had a problem with landing WS.

I think you are totally misrepresenting my post. I acknowledged defense values are an issue. Forget live, I am just talking about pre defense changes.

I was pointing out the differences between a buff and compensating for the current state of defending attacks.

Its one thing to updating an ability for changes that have been made, but its another thing to change it in a way that would have made it stronger than it ever was before those changes were made.

I never said anything about faction balance I dont see how bringing that up is even relevant. The argument that both factions will benefit is terrible and not a good reason to make a change.

If you want to make it indefensible, ok but thats a buff. That is not a change that is just making up for how high disrupt/dodge rates are currently.

Given the fact that they already have an attack that cannot be defended and that the ability in question reduces defense chances. You could argue that the class would be leaning in a direction that allows them to bypass an issue that everyone else is suffering from.

Maybe they are in a state where they need that buff though.

[dansari]

I believe it's less about the viability of their relevance in team play and more about the tactic's somewhat lackluster feel as being a waste of a tactic slot when you can't utilize it often. But, it is a strong tactic in its own right. My belief is that reducing the cooldown to 10s can make the tactic more "worth it" in certain builds, but making it undefendable would likely make it too strong for a core tactic.

Edit: and my opinion is equal to that of any other player in the grand scheme of things.

[Vayra]

I feel this is more a result of Disrupt being way too strong at the moment, rather than the ability needing a change.

But to not derail this into a disrupt discussion, I would favor reducing the CD rather than make it undefendable.

[dansari]

I feel this is more a result of Disrupt being way too strong at the moment, rather than the ability needing a change.

Unless Torque has other plans, the avoidance changes won't be reverted. Therefore, all arguments should focus on the current iteration of the game, rather than a pseudo-fantasy of days gone by.

[Acidic]

I feel this is more a result of Disrupt being way too strong at the moment, rather than the ability needing a change.

Unless Torque has other plans, the avoidance changes won't be reverted. Therefore, all arguments should focus on the current iteration of the game, rather than a pseudo-fantasy of days gone by.

Also to note that moving a tactic to grant indefensible would result in it being above and beyond the change to disrupts as it would totally negate tanks block and hold the line .

[Bozzax]

Reduce cd to 5s to open up for engi / magus in groups.

Such change simply opens up for faster target switching nothing more. (Damage dont inc etc)

It potentially make magus / engie more attractive for groups which is needed imo since solo gank / pull bot is really the only thing they are doing well atm.

[daniilpb]

Reduce cd to 5s to open up for engi / magus in groups.

Such change simply opens up for faster target switching nothing more. (Damage dont inc etc)

It potentially make magus / engie more attractive for groups which is needed imo since solo gank / pull bot is really the only thing they are doing well atm.

That's a good point actually. Magus/Engi are really unwelcome in most of group setups because it's really hard to apply their damage in chaotic environment of premade fights. Long cooldowns, stationarity and long casts are the real problems. This change can help it a bit.

[catholicism198]

Reduce cd to 5s to open up for engi / magus in groups.

Such change simply opens up for faster target switching nothing more. (Damage dont inc etc)

It potentially make magus / engie more attractive for groups which is needed imo since solo gank / pull bot is really the only thing they are doing well atm.

The Engineer is actually really good for during a keep siege and keep defense- they have a very potent large range s/t burst rotation.

While not ideal, solution one is the better option of the two because solution two would just create another power gap between Engineer and Magus- Endless dodges aren't nearly as common as endless disrupts, and unlike the Engineer, the Magus doesn't have a tactic that reduces a target's defenses, so the Engineer's application success rate will be significantly higher than the Magus' and we'll be back to square one.