Are BWs obsolete?

[dansari]

Thats orders own fault for choosing to go the route of the lowest hanging fruit and since the days where we were all stuck in T1 and choose to play nothing but SW, BW, healers and DPS AM 70-80% of order was nothing but that

they brought it on themselves

Order doesn't have tanks because of two reasons: people don't like the way they look (compared to Chosen, BO, BG), and pretty much only knight is useful in warband. IB can be decent if played well. SM is relatively useless. Chosen and BO bring so much group utility that order has no real comparison except knight. You can even bring BG now for easy superpunts or to beef up one DPS in particular, although the power of chosen aura, BO absorb/slows, and morale pumping is better.. Order didn't really bring it upon themselves; the class makeup and class aesthetics are what drive archetype numbers.

The same can be said for order mdps. Slayer, much like Choppa, is high risk/reward, but most people think Choppa looks cooler so they'll play that. Or they'll play the jack of all trades Mara. WL is pathetic in warband. And destro mdps have an easier time with it because of the plethora of pug tanks running around. Thus, less order mdps because of less tanks pushes more people to play rdps (where two are actual good damage dealers)... hence why the archetype numbers are the way they are.

It's just the nature of the game. If you make SM a better overall tank and/or look cooler, more people would play it. If you made WL useful in warband (or simply against greater numbers), you would see more in the lakes.. that kinda thing.

[BrockRiefenstahl]

Spoiler:

I play a BW atm lvl 35. Without good gear in SCs you are a poor poor training dummy. I think it will be better in full gear with some disrupt reduction, but that is FAR away. I also play WE and I felt bad for BWs honestly. I thought maybe they are so terrible gameplaywise (the players), and then I rolled a BW myself.
Now that I have seen it from the other side, it is really like that. In a PuG you are Victim N1 (especially with all enemies constantly having immunities against the few ccs that I have), also the massive Destru melee/tanktrains in SCs are nightmare, it is the WORST class that I leveled in RvR/SC (PuG) (Sidenote: WE/WH is the worst for PvE haha).

The combustion backdraft is really punishing if you have to recast dots and debuffs so many times. + the change for free instant proccs, makes it even worse.
Since the change, it feels like everyone and their mum specs full Deft Defender.
Would be interesting, if the top BWs could argument from a standpoint of NOT BiS geared BW gameplay, especially without a premade and constant guard/heals.

I still have some fun if RnGesus is on my side, but overall, it was much easier with other class especially in SCs I have trouble as BW. At least I got the Annihilator set now, havent tested it yet.

So... basically, after playing a class that is officially for solo play, you switch to the class that's infamous of its dependence on team support to be able to do anything, potentially the most dependent from all the classes... and then notice it's harder to play in a PUG playstyle where you're highly unlikely to get exactly that support? I don't know, but that'd feel kinda... well, obvious to me, regardless of at what stage of the RoR development that happened.

Yes and no, I just saw it first hand than how awfully bad it feels being on that end.
I also wrote, that I think its getting better when you get the proper RR + Gear (for the current state of Disrupt).

Also, I have a sorc, but she is only 19, still the experience was better than BW. Because another one has mentioned, that the main problem hereby is, that destru plays hard MMeleetrains. So not a BW problem itself, but a Faction problem in general.

[bwdaWAR]

Spoiler:

I play a BW atm lvl 35. Without good gear in SCs you are a poor poor training dummy. I think it will be better in full gear with some disrupt reduction, but that is FAR away. I also play WE and I felt bad for BWs honestly. I thought maybe they are so terrible gameplaywise (the players), and then I rolled a BW myself.
Now that I have seen it from the other side, it is really like that. In a PuG you are Victim N1 (especially with all enemies constantly having immunities against the few ccs that I have), also the massive Destru melee/tanktrains in SCs are nightmare, it is the WORST class that I leveled in RvR/SC (PuG) (Sidenote: WE/WH is the worst for PvE haha).

The combustion backdraft is really punishing if you have to recast dots and debuffs so many times. + the change for free instant proccs, makes it even worse.
Since the change, it feels like everyone and their mum specs full Deft Defender.
Would be interesting, if the top BWs could argument from a standpoint of NOT BiS geared BW gameplay, especially without a premade and constant guard/heals.

I still have some fun if RnGesus is on my side, but overall, it was much easier with other class especially in SCs I have trouble as BW. At least I got the Annihilator set now, havent tested it yet.

So... basically, after playing a class that is officially for solo play, you switch to the class that's infamous of its dependence on team support to be able to do anything, potentially the most dependent from all the classes... and then notice it's harder to play in a PUG playstyle where you're highly unlikely to get exactly that support? I don't know, but that'd feel kinda... well, obvious to me, regardless of at what stage of the RoR development that happened.

Yes and no, I just saw it first hand than how awfully bad it feels being on that end.
I also wrote, that I think its getting better when you get the proper RR + Gear (for the current state of Disrupt).

Also, I have a sorc, but she is only 19, still the experience was better than BW. Because another one has mentioned, that the main problem hereby is, that destru plays hard MMeleetrains. So not a BW problem itself, but a Faction problem in general.

I agree that trying classes, especially from the other side, can be highly informative; I tend to suggest to do just that to anyone who goes on a "this and this class (on the other realm) is so OP" rant. I also agree that there is a lack-of-melee problem on Order. But the point is that without some sort of group cooperation, BW/Sorc isn't going to work very well; they're really not for PUG play.

[Shalktonin]

This entire game is obsolete, doesn't mean we can't play it.

[Shing]

Outside of liking the class or nostalgia, is there any real reason to play a BW (or Sorc for that matter?) ? The disrupt changes combined with the combustion mechanic seem like running a SW would be better in every circumstance open world or in scenarios. They do everything as good, if not better, without blowing themselves up and creating more healer load in the process.

I understand why the combustion mechanic is what it is and the need during the live game, but with the changes here, it seems like it should probably be revisited.

I would say combustion damage is a non-issue really. Especially considering the bonuses it gives. I say this as someone who has done mostly pug while lvling my bw and sorc. Rehardless, there was a brainstorming forum about changing it not long ago.

As for the disrupt changes it can be frustrating, but has just made me change how I pick targets.

[covenn]

Every class besides healer,tank,we/wh, is obselete.

You mean every class you play?


Dot changes have some flaws but disrupt changes are no part of it.
OP seems to have pug problems. The same problems you had on live with solo bw/sorc.

No sorry, no pug problem here. I was just making an observation.

[Penril]

BWs (and Sorcs) are fine.

[Tesq]

Spoiler:

BWs (and Sorcs) are fine.

sorc aoe nerfed to the ground by change choppa fasta and then remove the only usefull thing on sorc which could use that well....... while bw can still ista cast long CD stuff on the move with disruot tactic potentially multiply the skills you use ( x2 )due having access to free GCD

ex aoe
- use annihilate get a free fiery blast
-circle next 3sec + channeling skill whatever to after 3 sec to get another fiery blast for free (ista cast on the move)
- repeat this endlessly and increase you number of action x global CD by default.....
-cough cought """funnel power""" cought cought (because free dmg increase taken with free mastery point in any spec could not sound that well or does it?)

ex st
-bw can ignore block/disrupt in st and ppl should just do that since is so dam good. And best bw build i saw around more or less revolve around mid+left with all these tricky tactics.

resistences
-destru need to hard overcap 2/3 (comp/spi) and soft overcap 1/3 (ele)
-yet order can simply just over cap spiritual, there is nothing really relevant out there exept spiritual, cap 2/3(bring kobs) and over cap 1/3 (overcap spi on classes who need it or anything exept slayer or even slayer because you can anyway ampge your way back into overcap lol).

game is totally balanced exept all the things that make it unbalanced.... on top alredy existed problems some changes just made worst the situation.

PPL still seems to think bw/sorc spec same skills same mastery and same tactics when going aoe/st while they are basically totally 2 different classes with just 1 meccanic in common.

talking about that and balance when you wil start balance common stuff between bw/magus (such striketrough tactics,ranged kd, heal debuff etc) and sorc/engi (ista cast stuff etc) maybe then you will have a balanced game.....

oh well but WAIT AIM REACHED now bw/sorc (mostly sorc, because bw strong poitn remained untouched; he can still be extraoridary mobile while aoe or st [especially aoe] which should be a primary strong point of sw/squig (and even there if mobility is not nerfed reach should indeed) are bad enough in meta so you can nerf chosen/KOBS res aura

GJ just as planned!!!!


still -> #waitingforafixtowh/weselfopuntthatnevercame #balanceforeveryone

Your sorc is level 16. Don't talk about classes you don't play (you did this with WLs in the past as well).

[ragafury]

Thats orders own fault for choosing to go the route of the lowest hanging fruit and since the days where we were all stuck in T1 and choose to play nothing but SW, BW, healers and DPS AM 70-80% of order was nothing but that

they brought it on themselves

Order doesn't have tanks because of two reasons: people don't like the way they look (compared to Chosen, BO, BG), and pretty much only knight is useful in warband. IB can be decent if played well. SM is relatively useless. Chosen and BO bring so much group utility that order has no real comparison except knight. You can even bring BG now for easy superpunts or to beef up one DPS in particular, although the power of chosen aura, BO absorb/slows, and morale pumping is better.. Order didn't really bring it upon themselves; the class makeup and class aesthetics are what drive archetype numbers.

The same can be said for order mdps. Slayer, much like Choppa, is high risk/reward, but most people think Choppa looks cooler so they'll play that. Or they'll play the jack of all trades Mara. WL is pathetic in warband. And destro mdps have an easier time with it because of the plethora of pug tanks running around. Thus, less order mdps because of less tanks pushes more people to play rdps (where two are actual good damage dealers)... hence why the archetype numbers are the way they are.

It's just the nature of the game. If you make SM a better overall tank and/or look cooler, more people would play it. If you made WL useful in warband (or simply against greater numbers), you would see more in the lakes.. that kinda thing.

#pray4destro we so OP

On a serious note:
Think the look of classes is not the problem.
While SM is really simplistic IB is really bloated, clunky and CD inefficient in warbands. In fact my first choice was sm, but I than created a bo (thanks shut ya face videos lel).
In smallscale the tank classes are really close performancewise I think.

Main issue (funny we just talked about it today in discord) is why I dislike tanking on order is this back and forth running between Frontline and rdps in scenarios.

[Dabbart]

I lol at the entire premise of this thread.

obvious troll is obvious.