[Review] [SW] Steady Aim

[Manatikik]

Spoiler:

Well dot up, Long cast somethin like Fester, mid flight of fester pop steady aim.

Or Fester arrow + Glass arrow mid flight pop steady aim.

No more Pre-calculated dots is a Big change.

If this thread is written from the perspective of how things USED to be then I think it is invalid. If this thread is written from the perspective of how it is RIGHT NOW ok valid. But do we even have enough experience with the new damage system to start incorporating balance changes?

Debuff's/Buff's taking immediate effect on damage is something new for this server. A community perception is built up on abilities/tactic's/everything based on the old system. Arguments coming from the community will be coming based on the old system which is completely invalid now. This new change is dramatic. I kinda think a month or two of waiting on all balance changes should be in place before any real balance changes are discussed. This allows the community to adjust to the new "no more precaclulated dots" and all the tricks that are within that change.

I'm not really saying that steady aim shouldn't be looked at, and need adjustment. I'm saying that this is the wrong timing for new balance discussions because the community needs to adapt. In addition, ALL the changes made previously probably need to be re-looked at because some of those arguements are now invalid due to precalculated dot's not existing anymore.

It has only been 13 days since precalculated dot's don't exist anymore... which kinda mean's any experience which existed over 13 day's don't mean nothing anymore. You only have 13 days of valid experience, not no year or two now. We are all in this boat.

I dont know about you but i played on Live with the way DoT's are now for years so I feel i have a decent grasp on how it affects SW damage. There is a reason SW were better on RoR vs AoR. And IMO balancing a class mechanic around a gimick strat for burst every 30 seconds (like Fester used to be and you're suggesting now) isn't the way to go; and certainly won't balance a class for any form of serious play.


And anyone saying SW will be OP with anymore Crit and Crit stacking is currently an issue: show some proof of coordinated play where a SW is overperforming due to Crits or at all.

[daniilpb]

The only thing I've noticed about new dots and defense in general is that even with 2dots+staidy aim I am no longer able to do any significant damage to tanks or any other targets with Deft Defender (I use it myself for ORvR, it's super OP, if you ask me). Such morals like Confusing Movements for mdps and Concealment for rdps are godlikely OP, just immortality for 7 seconds.
So yeah, I've adapted. And now I want some changes which proposals can bring.

[lefze]

And anyone saying SW will be OP with anymore Crit and Crit stacking is currently an issue: show some proof of coordinated play where a SW is overperforming due to Crits or at all.

Shouldn't really be necessary to provide proof of something that is meta. I play both SW and SH quite consistently in coordinated warbands, 12-mans and 6 mans, and there is no denying SW already overperforms with the amount of crit they can have for practically free. The whole idea of another crit buff, even if it was only 10% is just completely ridiculous, even with the drawbacks.

Not only that, but it doesn't fix the biggest issue SW has atm, which is as you say, ST burst. Fester can still deal ridiculous damage, but only on paper, and crit for sure isn't the thing keeping it back, it's the cast time. What you are basically asking for is to return ST to a gimped form of the former one trick pony spec by just adding raw damage instead of completely reworking something to improve and expand on the current kit by adding utility. As far as I can tell fixing the cast time should be the obvious solution here, not just adding even more ridiculous crit numbers.

[Manatikik]

And anyone saying SW will be OP with anymore Crit and Crit stacking is currently an issue: show some proof of coordinated play where a SW is overperforming due to Crits or at all.

Shouldn't really be necessary to provide proof of something that is meta. I play both SW and SH quite consistently in coordinated warbands, 12-mans and 6 mans, and there is no denying SW already overperforms with the amount of crit they can have for practically free. The whole idea of another crit buff, even if it was only 10% is just completely ridiculous, even with the drawbacks.

Not only that, but it doesn't fix the biggest issue SW has atm, which is as you say, ST burst. Fester can still deal ridiculous damage, but only on paper, and crit for sure isn't the thing keeping it back, it's the cast time. What you are basically asking for is to return ST to a gimped form of the former one trick pony spec by just adding raw damage instead of completely reworking something to improve and expand on the current kit by adding utility. As far as I can tell fixing the cast time should be the obvious solution here, not just adding even more ridiculous crit numbers.

Again, show me the proof. Just saying I don't need proof cause i'm me doesn't make it true. If big WB groups like TUP or Phalanx are having a hard time with SW crit then there should be proof of that, no?

And improving SA isn't about putting Fester back into play but giving SW a ST spike in damage by giving them risky guaranteed crits in a smaller time frame.

[dansari]

But I don't see the point when SW already has access to Bullseye. It just provides massive crit buffs to an already crit heavy class.

[lefze]

And anyone saying SW will be OP with anymore Crit and Crit stacking is currently an issue: show some proof of coordinated play where a SW is overperforming due to Crits or at all.

Shouldn't really be necessary to provide proof of something that is meta. I play both SW and SH quite consistently in coordinated warbands, 12-mans and 6 mans, and there is no denying SW already overperforms with the amount of crit they can have for practically free. The whole idea of another crit buff, even if it was only 10% is just completely ridiculous, even with the drawbacks.

Not only that, but it doesn't fix the biggest issue SW has atm, which is as you say, ST burst. Fester can still deal ridiculous damage, but only on paper, and crit for sure isn't the thing keeping it back, it's the cast time. What you are basically asking for is to return ST to a gimped form of the former one trick pony spec by just adding raw damage instead of completely reworking something to improve and expand on the current kit by adding utility. As far as I can tell fixing the cast time should be the obvious solution here, not just adding even more ridiculous crit numbers.

Again, show me the proof. Just saying I don't need proof cause i'm me doesn't make it true. If big WB groups like TUP or Phalanx are having a hard time with SW crit then there should be proof of that, no?

And improving SA isn't about putting Fester back into play but giving SW a ST spike in damage by giving them risky guaranteed crits in a smaller time frame.

Definetly not what I'm saying, what I'm saying is that ANYONE that plays during primetime should be aware of how good the class is atm. And actually, SW is almost always THE top class on my incoming damage tab. Sadly I don't have any enemy combat log SS to show atm, but I can provide it after next warband night if the debate is still going.

We already have way above average crit, and we have tools to give us spike. Why make up for the clunkiness of our existing burst roation by giving other stuff raw damage, instead of reducing clunkiness to make the existing kit excel at different stuff like it's originally designed to do? I just don't follow the logic here, do you really want SW to stay as monotone as it is now and just slap more dps on it instead of fixing the kit?

[Panzerkasper]

Spoiler:

Again, show me the proof. Just saying I don't need proof cause i'm me doesn't make it true. If big WB groups like TUP or Phalanx are having a hard time with SW crit then there should be proof of that, no?

And improving SA isn't about putting Fester back into play but giving SW a ST spike in damage by giving them risky guaranteed crits in a smaller time frame.

It is absolutely no secret, that rdps are completly overperforming and you want to buff the best one even further?
You want proof? I suggest for once play against a well played order rdps group, or against one with a melee-SW like Kajtarn are doing it atm. Do so and then think about your proposal again. I have played against and with SW and this class lacks of nothing.
Case closed.

Read the BDF rules. Though something tells me you won't need to once I am done reviewing this thread.

[Shing]

Spoiler:

It is absolutely no secret, that rdps are completly overperforming and you want to buff the best one even further?
You want proof? I suggest for once play against a well played order rdps group, or against one with a melee-SW like Kajtarn are doing it atm. Do so and then think about your proposal again. I have played against and with SW and this class lacks of nothing.
Case closed.

Your counterargument is to be upset that you got rolled by a premade. Not very helpful. Changing a skill does not imply a buff to the class.

Don't reply to those who don't follow the BDF rules.

[Coma]

It is absolutely no secret, that rdps are completly overperforming and you want to buff the best one even further?
You want proof? I suggest for once play against a well played order rdps group, or against one with a melee-SW like Kajtarn are doing it atm. Do so and then think about your proposal again. I have played against and with SW and this class lacks of nothing.
Case closed.

Your counterargument is to be upset that you got rolled by a premade. Not very helpful. Changing a skill does not imply a buff to the class.

sorry but.. changing a skill from useless to powerfull... and the proposed change make SA powerfull regardless of what class were to use it and regardless of the character crit/tactic combination... (the fact that SW already have access to a good bombing spec that could greatly benefit from this change only ADD to to the power of the skill but is ot what determine it being powerfull) is per definition a buff ^^'

so to get FACT stright...

1) SA as it is now is a useless skill

2) SW suffer lack of single target burst damage, in particular the scout mastery is mostly unused due to this and other problems (see projectile speed)

3) changins SA along the line proposed by the OP would affect not only signle target/scout build but will also GREATLY affect skirmish/AoE build that are already considered good and are looked for when it come to WB composition

those are fact... or is there someone that want to argue that Skirmish/AoE SW are a class/build that is not wanted in standard WB composition?


my own conclusion: SA need to be changed but not in the way the OP have presented

[TenTonHammer]

Your counterargument is to be upset that you got rolled by a premade. Not very helpful. Changing a skill does not imply a buff to the class.

Except all balance discussions are made from the perspective of group play? And outside ouf group play SW is one of the best 1v1 solo classes in the game

Additionally changing a skill to especially something as significant which affects crit chance IS a buff to the class

A buff to one of the easiest to play and execute classes in the game that already have other sources of crit boosting tools and lastly the op made refences to how steady aim would create a "6 second window" for to which you can burst down the SW and they become a free kill, except thats not the reality due to the nature of group play resulting in high TTK