Summary of new defensive mechanics

[anarchypark]

WS gives more parry, bigger %buff gives less parry, against 1k str. right?
I felt a lot of strikethrough while WoDS.( just feeling. )
i invested more WS.
better but not close to b4. (420WS)
question:
1. would WS give less parry after some point? is there some threshold for diminishing return in avoidance stats? ( against 1k attack stats)
2. parry RR skill vs WS RR skill, which is better?

[Aurandilaz]

Should've attended the prestigious Bright Wizard College™

Spoiler:

Yeah silly me, expecing to have similar damage potential as the mirror class on the other side.

Thank god the destro morale building tactics+abilities still work, so you dont have to do much bomb dmg, just the usual morale dump in 15 sec after the combat started.

You do realize what Sorc M2 for bombing is? It's Focused Mind. It's tricky to use, requires low disrupt target to be nearby so Close Quarters helps and requires the initial target to have low disrupt or else the Shattered Shadows fails to hit at all. You cast it 7 times and hope that the target is still alive, or if you are lucky you can switch target within that 7 second window and hope to find another low disrupt target within 20 feet of your bombing centre range that is still alive. Of 12-16 hours of warband raiding per week, I might pull off 5-10 FM+SS spams per week, it's pretty damn rare event.
Meanwhile BW unleashes Ruin and Destruction and does actual moral damage. BW M2 is up easily after 20-30 seconds, Sorc M4 for moral AoE damage is usually reached around 2 mins mark.

Reduce their willpower, get a group, use a KD or a stagger, finish with un-defend-able damage.

I'm bomb spec 90% of time when I'm online on Sorc. WP reduction from Word of Pain is something you really have no time for in middle of big bombing fight. Nor is the WP tactic part of standard bombing sorc arsenal.

[Gerv]

Reduce their willpower, get a group, use a KD or a stagger, finish with un-defend-able damage.

I'm bomb spec 90% of time when I'm online on Sorc. WP reduction from Word of Pain is something you really have no time for in middle of big bombing fight. Nor is the WP tactic part of standard bombing sorc arsenal.

Rough days fella, good luck to you!

[Haojin]

nice troll gerv :3

[Annaise16]

I did a quick test of disrupt against pve mobs. My level 36 sorc was hitting mobs of equal level. I removed the willpower debuff tactic so the target's willpower was not debuffed. The mobs disrupted 21 of 592 eligible hits. That's a disrupt rate of 3.55%, which doesn't seem excessive.

[Annaise16]

WS gives more parry, bigger %buff gives less parry, against 1k str. right?
I felt a lot of strikethrough while WoDS.( just feeling. )
i invested more WS.
better but not close to b4. (420WS)
question:
1. would WS give less parry after some point? is there some threshold for diminishing return in avoidance stats? ( against 1k attack stats)
2. parry RR skill vs WS RR skill, which is better?

For improving Parry, a +10% parry buff is equivalent to 262 points of weapon skill for level 40s. Of course, the weapon skill also gives extra damage through armour penetration along with the extra parry.

Check the 2 terms in the numerator of the formula in my original post if you want to try different combinations of weapon skill and +percentage buffs.

[Nidwin]

I did a quick test of disrupt against pve mobs. My level 36 sorc was hitting mobs of equal level. I removed the willpower debuff tactic so the target's willpower was not debuffed. The mobs disrupted 21 of 592 eligible hits. That's a disrupt rate of 3.55%, which doesn't seem excessive.

More or less what I experienced on my Magus, PVE and against keep Lords on Friday. My guess then was around 5% (1-2 every 20/50 hits) but it wasn't a full test, just an observation after reading the patch notes and keeping an eye on disrupt rates when possible.

[anarchypark]

I'm still struggling.

2. +x% modifiers are effectively nerfed by between 15-30%.
Formerly, a +10% parry bonus from abilities, tactics, dual-wield, gear, etc would have increased your parry chance by 10%. Now, it will increase you parry chance by 7.2% against an attacker with 1050 strength. This is a 2.8% reduction. An attacker with only half as much strength, 525, would reduce the bonus by half as much, 1.4%. So the bonus would now be worth 8.6%.

This effect is linear, so a +20% parry bonus would only be providing +14.4% against an attack with 1050 strength, etc.

does STR reduce parry from item/tactic/skills?
in the formula, strikethrough from items reduce it. twice(?).
or am I interpreting it wrong?

Spoiler:

//Parry/Dodge/Disrupt chance from tooltip
double secondaryDefense = (((defensiveStat) * 100) / ((target.EffectiveLevel * 7.5 + 50) * 7.5));
//Contestion based on offensive stat.
double removedDefense = (((offensiveStat) * 100) / (((caster.EffectiveLevel * 7.5) + 50) * 7.5));

secondaryDefense += target.StsInterface.GetTotalStat(Stats.Parry) - caster.StsInterface.GetStatLinearModifier(Stats.ParryStrikethrough);

secondaryDefense = (secondaryDefense * caster.StsInterface.GetStatPercentageModifier(Stats.ParryStrikethrough));

removedDefense += caster.StsInterface.GetStatLinearModifier(Stats.ParryStrikethrough);

removedDefense = (removedDefense * caster.StsInterface.GetStatPercentageModifier(Stats.ParryStrikethrough));
double baseRoll = 0d;
baseRoll += removedDefense;

if (ability != null)
secondaryDefense += ability.Defensibility;

double finalRoll = (StaticRandom.Instance.NextDouble() * (100d + baseRoll));

if (secondaryDefense >= finalRoll)
{
DoParry();
}

can Dev help this?
.GetStatLinearModifier(Stats.ParryStrikethrough);
.GetStatPercentageModifier(Stats.ParryStrikethrough));
item? tactic/skill? both? I think STR is not in there.

[wargrimnir]

I'm still struggling.

2. +x% modifiers are effectively nerfed by between 15-30%.
Formerly, a +10% parry bonus from abilities, tactics, dual-wield, gear, etc would have increased your parry chance by 10%. Now, it will increase you parry chance by 7.2% against an attacker with 1050 strength. This is a 2.8% reduction. An attacker with only half as much strength, 525, would reduce the bonus by half as much, 1.4%. So the bonus would now be worth 8.6%.

This effect is linear, so a +20% parry bonus would only be providing +14.4% against an attack with 1050 strength, etc.

does STR reduce parry from item/tactic/skills?
in the formula, strikethrough from items reduce it. twice(?).
or am I interpreting it wrong?

Spoiler:

//Parry/Dodge/Disrupt chance from tooltip
double secondaryDefense = (((defensiveStat) * 100) / ((target.EffectiveLevel * 7.5 + 50) * 7.5));
//Contestion based on offensive stat.
double removedDefense = (((offensiveStat) * 100) / (((caster.EffectiveLevel * 7.5) + 50) * 7.5));

secondaryDefense += target.StsInterface.GetTotalStat(Stats.Parry) - caster.StsInterface.GetStatLinearModifier(Stats.ParryStrikethrough);

secondaryDefense = (secondaryDefense * caster.StsInterface.GetStatPercentageModifier(Stats.ParryStrikethrough));

removedDefense += caster.StsInterface.GetStatLinearModifier(Stats.ParryStrikethrough);

removedDefense = (removedDefense * caster.StsInterface.GetStatPercentageModifier(Stats.ParryStrikethrough));
double baseRoll = 0d;
baseRoll += removedDefense;

if (ability != null)
secondaryDefense += ability.Defensibility;

double finalRoll = (StaticRandom.Instance.NextDouble() * (100d + baseRoll));

if (secondaryDefense >= finalRoll)
{
DoParry();
}

can Dev help this?
.GetStatLinearModifier(Stats.ParryStrikethrough);
.GetStatPercentageModifier(Stats.ParryStrikethrough));
item? tactic/skill? both? I think STR is not in there.

Not sure, but..
Base offensive stats have a strikethrough value. This should oppose base stat defense. Strikethough as a stat itself appears to be calculated afterward. Stuff that you would have on weapons/set bonuses are a Stat.

[Zealote]

Spoiler:

The game's defense mechanics were changed in the new patch.

In the patch note forums, we have been discussing with the devs how the new mechanics work. Without going into (much) mathematical detail, I will use this post to summarise some of the main points. Note that I am not a dev and that all of the information below is based on the discussion in the patch note forum.

Your chance of defending (parry, block, dodge, and disrupt) are based off contested rolls. The contested roll is based off your defensive stat and percentage defensive modifiers versus the attacker's offensive stat and percentage strike-through modifiers.

The opposing stats for each type of defence are:

Parry: defender's weapon skill versus attacker's strength
Block: shield rating versus attacker's strength
Dodge: defender's initiative versus attacker's ballistic skill
Disrupt: defender's willpower versus attacker's intelligence


In summary, the effects of the new mechanic are:
(All of the figures quoted are for level 40, but the results apply similarly at other levels.)


1. Defensive stats now provide more defence.
Formerly, a weapon skill of 450 would have provided 3.2% parry against a strength of 1050. Now it will provide 12.2% parry.
Formerly, willpower of 900 would have provided 6.4% disrupt versus an intelligence of 1050. Now it will provide 24.5% disrupt.
Formerly, a weapon skill of 500 would have provided 4.7% parry against a strength of 800. Now it will provide 14.6%.


2. +x% modifiers are effectively nerfed by between 15-30%.
Formerly, a +10% parry bonus from abilities, tactics, dual-wield, gear, etc would have increased your parry chance by 10%. Now, it will increase you parry chance by 7.2% against an attacker with 1050 strength. This is a 2.8% reduction. An attacker with only half as much strength, 525, would reduce the bonus by half as much, 1.4%. So the bonus would now be worth 8.6%.

This effect is linear, so a +20% parry bonus would only be providing +14.4% against an attack with 1050 strength, etc.


3. +y% strike-through modifiers are being treated the same way as the % defence modifiers
So, a +10% strike-through tactic will reduce the opponent's defence chance by only 7.2% if your offensive stat is 1050, etc.


4. The above summary applies to parry, dodge, and disrupt. Block was not discussed in the forum thread but it has apparently been changed to work in a similar way. The block rating on the shield should provide more block than previously but % modifiers should add slightly less block.


Comments
1. The big winner is healers versus casters. The healers disrupt chance should improve by 15%-25%.

2. Defensive stats are now more valuable while +x% modifiers are slightly less valuable. This balances out when the % modifiers are in the +20% to +30% range in most cases.

So a SM will notice better base parry, they get less added parry from using Eagle's flight (a +25% parry buff), but the total of their base parry and the buff from EF will give them approximately the same parry as previously. However, when they use WoDS, they will have maybe 5% less defence than previously because large buffs are receiving a larger effective nerf than small buffs.

3. Dps healers and defensively specced tanks aren't being disadvantaged because of their lower offensive stat. The improved defence chance is based on the defensive stat becoming more important. So differences in offensive stat produce only a few percent difference in defense chance, and this is something that dps healers and low-strength tanks were already encountering in the old system.


A simple formula that can be used to show how defence now works for level 40s is (this applie to parry/dodge/disrupt. Block would use different numbers and give a larger value):

defense% = 100% x (defender's defensive stat + 26.25 x % modifiers) / (attacker's offensive stat + 2625)

For example, working out parry%:

defender's weapon skill = 450
defender has +10% to parry from the renown ability
attacker's strength = 1000

defender's parry % = 100% x (450 + 26.25 x 10) / (1000 + 2625) = 100% x 712.5 / 3625 = 19.7%

The conversation between you and Secrets in the Patch Notes thread went back and forth a bit about strikethrough stats and their effective value; could you clarify whether flat % modifiers (+10% block/parry, -10% chance to be parried etc) are indeed worth less under the new system?

Not necessarily a bad thing, but it's quite a big change in some ways. I'm thinking, for example, of BG's parry tactic ('Anger Drives Me'). I assume instead of it giving 3% per 10 hatred, it's now 2.16%, for a max parry buff of 21.6% instead of 30%. That's a 28% reduction in its value.

The whole picture has to be considered of course, e.g. BG's willpower buff is stronger than it was before, which is why I said it's not necessarily a bad thing. Would just like to be clear on the changes.