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Time is Precious

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Darosh
Banned
Posts: 1197

Re: Time is Precious

Post#21 » Thu Jul 06, 2017 10:32 pm

TenTonHammer wrote:Thats why i play scenarios and just use scenario weapons and gear

RvR does take ages to lock zones
If you are playing on order I'd highly recommend - as did Collateral earlier in the thread - to run on CNTK/BT (alternatively Beaver/Frenchie [LLMKish? sorry for butchering the abbreviation]) session days.
They usually lock 1-2 zones during their sessions (~4hrs) and have spare spots for pugs ~ most of their warband members are getting bags on a pretty regular basis in those sessions; just casually tagging along in pug warbands on these session days is, too, well worth it, as these guilds can hold their own for the most part, allowing pugs to grab kills and stuff on the run.

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anarchypark
Posts: 2085

Re: Time is Precious

Post#22 » Fri Jul 07, 2017 3:09 am

I recommend different approach.
you don't need to stay 3+hours for seals/conq gears.
you can still farm it with 1hour play.

What you get from zone flip :
rp, 1 or 2 seals, rng bag.
no reason to stay longer than you want.
contribution is saved and even rp and bag are mailed to you.

pug WB is not profitable at farming seals.
small grp is better for it.
sometimes it's hard to get grp but
simply, good playing gives more seals.
you don't have to be 6man, 2~3man also work.
in fact, my best farm was 2man grp.
10+ seals for me, gold bag for dps.
worst farm was pug wb, 0 seal for hours play.

mindless zerg play, easy leeching is not the way for end gears.
hard effort, against odd is way.

is there no activity in T3? try making it.
use /5, /t3, /1
is there 400% aao? don't give up. you get more seals when zone flips with aao.
if you stopped zone flip, it means more fight, more chance for seal drop.
SM8, SW8, AM8, WL7, KoBS6, BW6, WP8, WH7, IB8, Eng5, RP5, SL6
BG8, Sorc8, DoK8, WE7, Chs8, Mg8, Ze7, Mara8, BO6, SH7, Shm6, Chop4
SC summary - viewtopic.php?f=8&t=20415
( last update : 2020.06.09)

freshour
Banned
Posts: 835

Re: Time is Precious

Post#23 » Fri Jul 07, 2017 3:37 am

TenTonHammer wrote:Thats why i play scenarios and just use scenario weapons and gear

RvR does take ages to lock zones
I second this.

To the OP
Spoiler:
Just go with the SC gear. If the class you like has terrible SC gear, find one that has good gear. RVR is a total crap shoot. First you have to find people who like RVR, second you have to find people who are good at RVR, third you have to find people that like to roam as it yields the most medallions vs warbands (just my experience with over 50-75 hours of each many more in roaming).

Easiest way is to do pug sc, make friends, add them. Tell them you don't play much but that you'll get on TS/Discord whatever (this is huge for most groups), if you aren't good, be honest and say you are trying to get better. Once you have the group, you can kinda time your play sessions to run with them.

Like my guild does probably 95% roaming as a 5-6 man in RVR. They did RVR on live a lot, they play a lot of RDPS. I hate RDPS so I get my SC's in during EU time, either early (I wake up super early) or in the afternoon if I'm off. I got all my gear that way, in just a few weekends you can leech EU SC rewards since NA SC's are a joke, and get a good set. If I want to try the RNG on RNG on RNG I'll spec backline heals or play a different class. But first priority is finding a group, then you kinda tailor around it.

Trust me, you will not change the game for it is the way the devs want it. It really isn't worth fighting it, offering suggestions, or anything like that. Just gotta find your own way to have fun and as soon as you let it go and understand that it is their server with 1-2 people making all the changes/decisions and that you just gotta roll with whatever they come up with since it is their time not ours spent making it work - you'll have a lot more fun. Hope that helps

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Darosh
Banned
Posts: 1197

Re: Time is Precious

Post#24 » Fri Jul 07, 2017 5:20 am

anarchypark wrote:
Spoiler:
I recommend different approach.
you don't need to stay 3+hours for seals/conq gears.
you can still farm it with 1hour play.

What you get from zone flip :
rp, 1 or 2 seals, rng bag.
no reason to stay longer than you want.
contribution is saved and even rp and bag are mailed to you.

pug WB is not profitable at farming seals.
small grp is better for it.
sometimes it's hard to get grp but
simply, good playing gives more seals.
you don't have to be 6man, 2~3man also work.
in fact, my best farm was 2man grp.
10+ seals for me, gold bag for dps.
worst farm was pug wb, 0 seal for hours play.

mindless zerg play, easy leeching is not the way for end gears.
hard effort, against odd is way.

is there no activity in T3? try making it.
use /5, /t3, /1
is there 400% aao? don't give up. you get more seals when zone flips with aao.
if you stopped zone flip, it means more fight, more chance for seal drop.
I agree, getting just about anything in this game is ridiculous easy with the tiniest bit of organization - however, as most that create or frequent these threads are vividly opposed to anything coming even remotely close to playing in actual groups (= groups that don't consist of randoms and mutists), mindless zergplay will almost always be their go-to anyway.

However, getting into organized warbands is probably the most efficient and forgiving way of gearing up/getting a grasp of the game if you are on a tough schedule/new to the game, as most of your mistakes are masked by the numbers in play. The environment these organized warbands create additionally gets <most> people to acknowledge the vast difference in gameplay and expierence there is compared to pugging.
By the time the first fix and initial gear progression is in, <most> will have managed to bond with others; to find people that can answer questions about specs and mechanics or are willing to group with them outside of these events, and unterstood the basics of their classes regardless, allowing them to actually go about their merry way not just forming, but rather building groups.

If one is on a tough shedule, one should certainly reconsider the way they approach this game; to nonstop pug and play on your own will ultimately burn you out ~ its invetiable, as you will hit release 24/7 without even an opportunity to vent your anger via voice comms and good jokes, or gear for that matter.
It doesn't need to be a super die-tryhard approach, there doesn't need to be any epeen involved in groups to actually make a giant difference; just playing with a bunch of your friends (either the ones you already have and pestered long enough to join you on RoR, or those you make whilst playing the game) is sooo much more enjoyable and soooo much more efficient in just about every regard.
I for one cannot fathom to pug, especially considering I am on an incredible tough schedule myself - it is just such a waste of time, compared to what one can pull off just by tossing around some tells and invites.

A bit more grumpyness, I can't help it:
It never ceases to amaze me that people manage to preserve their hope and faith, and still try to give a breakdown of what essentially comes down to common sense - pointing out the obvious gets most people to pug even harder, just out of spite.

-
@Ultraprimarch, a more elaborate feedback:
Spoiler:
Even though you initially stated you don't want free stuff and unterstand the workings of grind in MMOs, and considering you contradict yourself there by arguing for a more lenient approach and less timesink, bear with me:

If that (the above) however is no option for you, for whatever reason that might be, you should not expect to be handed what others have gained by playing together, by running an 'organized' (note: I am using this word extremly lenient, as just about any kind of organization will quadruple the returns of whatever you desire to get in this game) group or guild.
Note that these very guilds and groups putting effort and time into the game are the very same people that keep this server populated and the fights going (especially as they will not engage in fairweather play), its their fair share of perceived progression, reward and rightful claim to not have gear dished out en mass to everyone.

Now let alone the carrot-and-stick thats ultimately required to incentivise players to stick around (and to keep altoholics in check *cough*):

In regards to 'population' (by extension RvR system): There will always be a core of players that don't care about gear; that play 'just for the sake of having fun', and ultimately are - by default basically - decked out on everything as they have unterstood the very dynamic of this game; the population will heavily fluctate.
It is a private server for a dead (niche) game, after all ~ expecting it to gain traction, or maintain a steady population if things are flung around for free and if efforts of the communtiy aren't rewarded (if not even indirectly tarnished a tad) is adorable, but its not feasible.
People that don't stick around with the current 'grind' in place, will not stick around either way - every new release will chip away at the population, depending on the nature of these releases it'll either be temporary or permanent. No approach to handling gear distribution will change that; the issue with population will always persist in a way - funneling people into one zone and having the flip take that long is therefor (and due to tech limitations, lack of feasible concepts and development time [devs are running on fumes, given that they have an actual RL to manage aswell]) necessary, its not the optimum and will surely be changed in the future, but its certainly not one of the priorities and won't be for a long time I figure.

Last but not least there is basic psychology - even the most die-tryhard WAR players, those most addicted to it (e.g.: myself), will lose interest if theres nothing left that allows their brains to drown in dopamine.
As harder and longer you 'work' for something, for example not only gear but your character in general; min/max (RR) and such, as more fun stuff happens in your brain once you get what you've 'worked' for - as more improvements you can perceive as merrier.
Even more importantly: As more time you invest into your character; into the game, as harder it becomes for you to ditch the game, the time investment is lingering - so are your brain's expectations in regards to it's daily dose of dopamine (if you ever worked for anything related to rehab or alike, you'll get the hint).

The latter is what the RoR staff tries to abide by, for good reason - there have several dissertations and scientific papers been written about the deployment of psychological measures, workings and necessities in and of MMOs; games in general, and that not just for the fun of it. Take World of Warcraft as an example, why do you think it is such a success and more importantly why do you think it still has a very strong population (for its age it is impressive, especially out of a certain perspective...)? Hint: Its not because its a perfect or a remotely forgiving game in terms of time spent.

As to the economic argument: It doesn't apply. You can substitute the economic drive with the nature of this game, i.e.: PvP and the far more severe dependence on population and you, once again, are forced to deploy these measures to keep things afloat - if you don't, well, again...new releases have an ever higher chance of permanently chipping away at the population, as there is nothing you would think twice about ditching or revisiting if you had not invested <alot> of time into it ~ social contacts and shortterm fun (= the kind of fun you can have whilst pugging 24/7) doesn't do the trick, for that the time we live in is too fast paced and too riddled with issues; our lives are too riddled with hardships and responsibilities that require conscious decisions and assessment (compared to when, well, we were younger and the first MMO's; games in general, hit the market).
Playing one's subsconciousness is so much, much more efficient in regards to keeping things afloat, regardlesss of the aspect of life that is concerned...


Now, the following might be strechting the limits a tad and will have me sound like a broken record - I apologize in advance if it is a bit too upfront:

Masking this kind of wishful thinking by stating undying arguments, and arguments that do not necessarily pertain to the very essence of your thread (= that are accounted for by tech development, things that cannot be changed by staff [e.g.: population, by extension RvR system], or things that can be circumvented by means readily accessible to you [e.g.: grouping to grind meds to skip lootroll dependence, premades to grind out emblems via pugfarm]) - especially if you don't take your time to see whether what you are about to type out has already been flung around a million times, and subsequently addressed a million times - is rather insulting (even if it isn't your intention to rile people up; I don't mean to accuse you of ill intent), if not at last to yourself as you quite literally waste the little time you have to play the game with something that gets you nothing but flak and platitudes flung your way.
Hence my suggestion to you to work out something more elaborate to make it worthwhile ~ who knows, you could convince the RoR staff to be a bit more lenient on the grindy side of things if you compiled just enough statements from community members and arguments in a comprehensive manner... or well, you could learn in the very same process about the issue and come to the conclusion that it isn't a thing worth having headaches over, or learn ways to completly circumvent the issues you are having in the first place.
Again, I completly unterstand where you are coming from - I, too, struggle to find time to actually play the game.
Last edited by Darosh on Mon Jul 10, 2017 12:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

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UltraPrimarch
Posts: 42

Re: Time is Precious

Post#25 » Fri Jul 07, 2017 11:17 am

I thank you all for your answers, some were most helpful and i will try some of those methods.

@Darosh. Thx for your huge posts and your time to write them. Allow me though to say that among others in your latest post you tried for second time to present my descicion to make this thread as a move not respectful for the community here -even not intentionally- cause i did not made my research and read all those hundreds of threads for a similar post before i make mine. Yes, i did not do that not because i do not have any kind of respect but cause it would take days upon days before i could find anything.
I have the feeling that you try to kinda "cancel" my arguments here no matter if im wrong or right using also side ways, like trying to accuse me for being not respectful.
Anyway, i understand that you really love the game as it is and i respect this but you dont have to make it "personal" each time some player presents an opinion that do not follow yours, and start a "crusade" trying to prove him wrong, using sometimes a dose of irony! Cause guess what, like it or not, there are ppl that do not always share our personal taste and opinion.

Also, you said something about finding players that agree with me and come again to make a strong statement etc. etc. But, you already informed us that there have been LOTS of similar threads, which means that already lots of ppl agree with me or if you prefer, we share a common mind about it. Your mistake, if i may say, is that you examine those threads individually, but if you see the whole picture you'll realize that this is not just about someone that feels lazy or wants eay things.
Ofc, you and me are just players and it doesn't matter how we see it, but at least i hope devs to see the big picture cause Darosh i don't think you prefer a hardcore mmo which in it's core is a group game (like RoR) on an empty server, right?
And i'm using again this "empty server" possibility not cause im trying to be a prophet of bad omens, but cause i already have friends and see ppl inguilds quitting cause of things like what we are talking about.
No Pity! No Remorse! No Fear!

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Manatikik
Posts: 1249

Re: Time is Precious

Post#26 » Sat Jul 08, 2017 5:45 am

You can "farm" Merc gear is a day wtih 50% WR of SC's. Sure BiS takes awhile but its not like live where you're having Anni gear vs Sov, Conq is a step up but only a step not a huge power gap. If you're gonna complain about the best gear in the game being hard to get then why not also complain that everyone should just get max armor and stat pots mailed to them every day? MMO's are about progression plain and simple.
<Montague><Capulet>

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Darosh
Banned
Posts: 1197

Re: Time is Precious

Post#27 » Sun Jul 09, 2017 2:04 pm

UltraPrimarch wrote:
Spoiler:
I thank you all for your answers, some were most helpful and i will try some of those methods.

@Darosh. Thx for your huge posts and your time to write them. Allow me though to say that among others in your latest post you tried for second time to present my descicion to make this thread as a move not respectful for the community here -even not intentionally- cause i did not made my research and read all those hundreds of threads for a similar post before i make mine. Yes, i did not do that not because i do not have any kind of respect but cause it would take days upon days before i could find anything.
I have the feeling that you try to kinda "cancel" my arguments here no matter if im wrong or right using also side ways, like trying to accuse me for being not respectful.
Anyway, i understand that you really love the game as it is and i respect this but you dont have to make it "personal" each time some player presents an opinion that do not follow yours, and start a "crusade" trying to prove him wrong, using sometimes a dose of irony! Cause guess what, like it or not, there are ppl that do not always share our personal taste and opinion.

Also, you said something about finding players that agree with me and come again to make a strong statement etc. etc. But, you already informed us that there have been LOTS of similar threads, which means that already lots of ppl agree with me or if you prefer, we share a common mind about it. Your mistake, if i may say, is that you examine those threads individually, but if you see the whole picture you'll realize that this is not just about someone that feels lazy or wants eay things.
Ofc, you and me are just players and it doesn't matter how we see it, but at least i hope devs to see the big picture cause Darosh i don't think you prefer a hardcore mmo which in it's core is a group game (like RoR) on an empty server, right?
And i'm using again this "empty server" possibility not cause im trying to be a prophet of bad omens, but cause i already have friends and see ppl inguilds quitting cause of things like what we are talking about.
Spoiler:
I by no means intend to have this spiral into a personal argument, if the way I respond to you comes off like this: my honest apologies.
Neither do I intend to cancel out your arguments, rather point out that they have been denied their punch in the past.
As I naturally agree with the notion of your thread ~ how couldn't I? It is the grumpy sceptic in me that is tempted to smite all the things.

Given the discussions about this topic and their outcome in the past, it is fair to say that the quantity of people opposed to the way gear and alike is handeld bears no significance - note: I am not saying this on a whim, or because I personally agree with the notion of it; I go by the staff's take on it -, hence my suggestion to come about and join others in effort to craft something that brings us forward, one way or another.
As you've pointed out just then our take ultimately doesn't matter; one can easily be mislead by the community's approval/criticism of one's take on things ~ ultimately one argues with the Devs, a seperate instance alltogether, i.e.: the community can hail you or loath you: The Devs likely don't care, what they care about are (new) arguments.
TLDR: Irony. The player in me generally agrees with you, the grunt (tangent in the WoT of mine) in me agrees with even the most draconic approach to grinding; carrots and sticks. My wishful thinking is on full display here; be the one to convince the Staff to be a tiny bit more lenient or the community to toughen up and organize itself, plox.


Abbd.: [DISCLAIMER: Alot of broken recordness down below!]
Spoiler:
One more thing I want to point out in regards to "hardcore playerbase":
It is not my intention to establish a "hardcore playerbase"; I do not envision a game that caters only to those able to be online 24/7. I much rather like to extend the "core playerbase" by getting more people to embrace the multiplayer nature of this game.
[snip - removed a bit of the broken record]
In other words: As more people unterstand that they can make the time they spent actually worth it; as fewer people perceive the gear distribution to be an issue (by basically circumventing it, playing to the game's strengths), as lower the chance of this grind actually contributing to the emptying of the server.
Note: The gear one does aspire to get is literally worthless, if one does not make an effort to group (read: to get organized). Someone pugging in BiS gear is just as powerful as someone entering T4 in green gear ~ the only expection - maybe - being soloroam, but even then - given the current single-zone-campaign; overpopulated, at times 'too small' zones - it doesn't matter much, if at all.
Voice comms, a guild/group and good jokes should be considered BiS equipment,imho.
Abbd.:
If I get around to it - don't count on it - I'll dig up a bunch of scientific papers featuring the workings of all of this.
In any case, everyone is highly advised to read up on it, the findings in regards to (player) perception versus mechanisms/necessities are fascinating; even this very conflict is an integral part it, as it can and will aid in the development of a community, among other things.
After you've read about it you'll see MMOs; games in general, in a completly diffrent light (as it completly eliminates the vagueness in assessment and the individual perspective, or rather explains even those), I promise.

E: Words, format and all that stuff.
Last edited by Darosh on Mon Jul 10, 2017 8:18 am, edited 16 times in total.

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peterthepan3
Posts: 6509

Re: Time is Precious

Post#28 » Sun Jul 09, 2017 2:36 pm

I honestly can't fathom how anyone could disagree with any of the points Darosh made; beautifully explained, and to the point.

Nothing insidious about what he said whatsoever, and would be good if more of the perpetrators of said threads heeded his words =P
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quda
Posts: 63

Re: Time is Precious

Post#29 » Sat Jul 15, 2017 8:47 pm

Ok we can farm overlord and Anhi sets fast. But low server population means that you must spend a lot of time to lvling, cause you cant play game when YOU WANT. You can but what you will with 200 ppl online spread to 3 tiers.

I think we need faster lvling or no PVE lvling at all. We are here for WAR and only WAR, not chicken farming, MEAT AND FLESH!!!

Daknallbomb
Posts: 1781

Re: Time is Precious

Post#30 » Sun Jul 16, 2017 4:27 pm

Faster leveling? Most chars are 40 in about 12 hours play time easyli solo.
Tinkabell 40/41 Magus Whaagit 40/41 SH Whaagot 40/54 BO Daknallfrosch 40/72shammy

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