Return of Reckoning

Gobmarley wrote:If one begins to remove this or that skill on a class why not remove the abusive distance of the engineer or the ponce of the white lion that were different on WAR too. Experimental changes were made with the aim of balancing and making sure to send out those who were against. Now we are discussing a change present for a while and that is not so balanced ... no comments ...

My shaman could be the worst class of all time, I will play it anyway because he is the most beautiful! (with Daknallfrosch )

Nice words my friend But i still have you in my mind that you run away from a Fight

Whats unballanced for 6v6 might be perfectly fine for 12v12 or Warband scale. Just being equal in numbers doesn't necesarly means that the skills are broken in other larger formats with equal amount of competent players. The only thing the collected information can really be used for is feedback for 6v6 ballance.

The current state of ab mode for shaman/AM is as it is. Both sides have access to it and it has been shown it is beatable. I'm surprised no one mentioned 3 healer setup: zealot, heal dok, melee dok or even worse: zealot, ab shaman, melee dok. Not to think about pure evil: double shaman/AM (yes it happened).

If you start with not including certain overperfoming classes (specifications) this won't end with ex mode. Next thing you have is marauder/wl isn't allowed since they are overperfoming every other dd aswell. Next thing is kotbs/chosen isn't allowed since they overperfoming too so... Include what you have live. The only thing I can think of some esports tend to do is not allow double classes but I see no reason to do it here. If people win with double setups it will even show more light on overperfoming classes therefore they will be nerved quicker.

DefinitelyNotWingz wrote:And if they can't figure out how to beat it?

Even that premades actually think about banning a class or certain skills from a (numberwise) balanced fight can be considered a wake up call for those in charge of balance.
By providing evidence of capable players unable to deal with the lifetap madness one might be able to get the long due adjustment of shaman and especially am (https://github.com/WarEmu/WarBugs/issues/9284).

So yeah, everything should be allowed so the videos can be considered feedback for future balancing attempts.

You know what happens if someone cant beat something in their first attempt. They mobilize a legion of whiners, march onto the forums and whine until AM/SA is nerfed back into the stone ages. Where these dirty classes belong.

What, soon someone will suggest bringing back 100 feet range KOTB triple shatter of shaman enchantments, because those pesky little gits are out of control?

It was some argument thread from ages past where some people argued that every CC and ranged CC and snare and what-else Order side has, is simply because they need all of it to catch those little green demons from hell...

Cimba wrote:
You know what happens if someone cant beat something in their first attempt. They mobilize a legion of whiners, march onto the forums and whine until AM/SA is nerfed back into the stone ages. Where these dirty classes belong.

Whining? Rather pointing out flaws and even asking for footage as valid proof. Nerfing anything to death is not my decision to make nor do I think it is necessary.
Proc meta had to be toned down sorry for that one.

DefinitelyNotWingz wrote:Whining? Rather pointing out flaws and even asking for footage as valid proof. Nerfing anything to death is not my decision to make nor do I think it is necessary.
Proc meta had to be toned down sorry for that one.

How do you know it's a flaw though? What's your reference performance from which you gauge something is out of bounds? Because the ability in question looks like a pretty damn hard counter to 4 man melee trains. I bet it would perform vastly inferior against rdps setups. Or even split melee trains. Too bad no one plays that anymore.

No hard feelings about the proc stuff. Didn't disagree with you on that one. That they burned the entire concept to the ground is a different story. Just worried that the same will happen to life tap healing.

Are AMs/Shams overperforming than golden composition wp/rp or dok/zeal in terms of group utility/heal? I dont think so.

Wdova wrote:Are AMs/Shams overperforming than golden composition wp/rp or dok/zeal in terms of group utility/heal? I dont think so.

they are, if the AM/shaman knows how to maximize lifetap healing, which surges them ahead in the healpotential compared to dok/wp and rp/zlt
especially now that dok/wp have their detaunt somewhat limited, compared to the maximum detaunting that shamans enjoy

a good might outheal an average shaman, but an excellent shaman will have the potential to wipe the floor with good doks. (which was exactly the other way round 4 years ago lmao)