[Choppa] Defensive priority

[Darosh]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buzqBa_k7Xs , just to give u an idea on which RR ability to chose

Do the math on that one ~ hint: thats 100 RR points spent, with about half of them blown into a RR ability that isn't even available.

Blademaster = WS won't cut it on RoR given that to utilize WS you need BiS gear and high RR or don't even need to bother; 500-600 WS for 40-50% armorpen is a treshold only worth surpassing if you can approach softcap. In regards to the parry gained... well unlike destro tanks, their order equivalents (especially KotBS - runefang *cough*) don't have any issues whatsoever getting their STR up to sufficient enough levels (+500-700) to completly bypass the natural avoidance WS offers - without even getting off their deftard schtick (KotBS) or sacrifice defense otherwise (IB, SM) - even if you approach the softcap, the net benefit in terms of parry is miniscule.
While you on the other hand - if you do not fullfill the requirements - will sacrifice a metric shitton of stats across the board to approach the WS softcap or are locking yourself into some gimmicky gear setup to gain a miniscule parry bonus.
Mdps are mdps softcapping STR, rdps are rdps and therefor do not care about parry - if you run into deftard WPs, or any melee diehard-deftards out there in the lakes you'll benefit from the WS-powered parry, given that they'll either have quite some trouble softcapping str or aren't even trying to do so.

Opportunist = melee crit, depends highly on the format he plays in, the gear he sports and the spec he chooses to run (he can run a variant that offers a 100% critchance for 3s on being defended against, which is workable in roaming) - it is entirely offensive so it defeats the purpose of his question.
Considering hes asking for defense its likely (in fact he states that hes running solo/duo) that he is not running with a premade or a warband to sustain a glassy approach, if the former is the case then relying on ini debuffs or a debuffbot mara might be more feasible than stacking crit through RR to allow him to pick other goodies to help sustain himself in 6vX, if the latter is concerned he can go almost full glass but would still need enough RR to grab atleast R1 RD.

Trivial Blows = -critdmg, but it isn't available on RoR.

Resolute Defense is the only pick shown in this video that is worth it for his purposes, and a full stack of RD won't be cost effective, necessary or possible whilst being low RR.
He might aswell pick RD/CW/avoidances/wounds[/toughness] as they actually yield better returns regardless of the format he plays in.

Shorter version of the below in the TLDR...

Spoiler:

Given the lack of dynamic damage making ragedumps almost entirely useless when facing DoT-heavy classes, CW is almost mandatory for soloroaming - unless he manages to consistently run into soloing derps, gets the jump on them and can sustain himself with pots until he manages to seal the deal; runs with a healer on a regular basis.

With plenty of possibilities to stack avoidance with tomesets/some of the genesis stuff/some of the lair jewelry an avoidance stack will probably net him the best returns, especially if he has a pocket tank to HtL dance around him - and even if not, getting to +25%ish avoidance across the board should easily be possible. Considering the lack of dynamic damage even resistances are neglible in roaming; most of the magical damage one can face is based on DoTs or similar abilties - good player will drop those things the moment you go all shiny and big anyways. (Especially since how potent avoidance is in general, stacking avoidance can never go wrong - one might, depending on the circumstances [= format/group composition], lose some dps potential but it cannot backfire as good returns are guranteed.)

Toughness would net him better returns if he were able to stack it higher; if he runs DWLF investing into toughness is an utter waste of talisman slots (one should never consider pumping RR into plain stats if one is still sub70; literally everything else yields better returns for the points spent), considering most toughness he can aquire will be chewed through by fluff debuffs even whilst roaming.

Wounds is the all-time stat, if you don't know what to do just stack wounds, bolstering your HP never hurts and accounts for literally every source of damage, morales included.

I'd suggest initiative aswell if it weren't for a destro class being up against a high average static crit (either by virtue of group composition or own tactics, more often than not in combination with potent initiative debuffs [especially roaming classes like WH/AM/SW have a field day with crit whilst on their own]). As a destro class you have a hard time negating crit in general, the little bit of initative you have access to won't do the trick. Even FS might not only be a medicore waste but an incredible waste of points depending on your opposition.

Once again: Live footage is insubstantial. People back then specced the way they did because they had a completely diffrent set of resources to work with and ultimately played a completly diffrent game alltogether because of that.

TLDR:
Avoidance + Wounds > else; negating a portion of attacks completly/upping HP pool to survive (semi-)static amounts of bursts that you cannot push below neglible levels (WL/BW/... | morales) > negating a portion of attacks partially.

Armor/Resistance aren't worth it. The former due to potent armordebuffs and the career mechanic - even on live -, the latter on RoR due to lack of dynamic damage and the way magical damage is applied in the most prominent cases (BW/Engi/AM) - while SMs almost completly cut through the resistances accessible in soloraom either way.
[snip - mixed up morales here]

Toughness is only worth the investment if you can get it to 500ish and even then its lackluster (on Choppas, given their career mechanic chewing away at armor/resistance making the mitigation not worthwhile - even post-overhaul); is not an option for Choppas unless they happen to run with a Shaman that sports the now unviable (due to .ab ex) DSU.

Futile Strike/Initiative are neglible for the <most part>, given average accessible crit (and initiative debuffs on the most prominent roaming candidates) on order in virtually every format/composition and on every class. If you happen to run the def SCs weapons and the other -CTBC goodies it might be worth a shot, but I assume you (OP) do not.

Edit: Words and stuff.

[TenTonHammer]

For choppa the defensive stats to prioritize is basically

Parry, dodge and disrupt, resolute defense and perhaps quick escape

You can keep your str high with brute force and don't wanna live for eva, and compensate for low toughness with da biggest wounds tactic


By end game you will be soft capping your str no matter what, this will allow you to run defensive sets for more surviveabilty with slotted armor tallies and what not

With high parry from rr and DW and points in do edge and disrupt and potential defensive set procs along with 7K hp, you should be pretty surviveable as far as choppas go

[lilsabin]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buzqBa_k7Xs , just to give u an idea on which RR ability to chose

Do the math on that one ~ hint: thats 100 RR points spent, with about half of them blown into a RR ability that isn't even available.

Blademaster = WS won't cut it on RoR given that to utilize WS you need BiS gear and high RR or don't even need to bother; 500-600 WS for 40-50% armorpen is a treshold only worth surpassing if you can approach softcap. In regards to the parry gained... well unlike destro tanks, their order equivalents (especially KotBS - runefang *cough*) don't have any issues whatsoever getting their STR up to sufficient enough levels (+500-700) to completly bypass the natural avoidance WS offers - without even getting off their deftard schtick (KotBS) or sacrifice defense otherwise (IB, SM) - even if you approach the softcap, the net benefit in terms of parry is miniscule.
While you on the other hand - if you do not fullfill the requirements - will sacrifice a metric shitton of stats across the board to approach the WS softcap or are locking yourself into some gimmicky gear setup to gain a miniscule parry bonus.
Mdps are mdps softcapping STR, rdps are rdps and therefor do not care about parry - if you run into deftard WPs, or any melee diehard-deftards out there in the lakes you'll benefit from the WS-powered parry, given that they'll either have quite some trouble softcapping str or aren't even trying to do so.

Opportunist = melee crit, depends highly on the format he plays in, the gear he sports and the spec he chooses to run (he can run a variant that offers a 100% critchance for 3s on being defended against, which is workable in roaming) - it is entirely offensive so it defeats the purpose of his question.
Considering hes asking for defense its likely (in fact he states that hes running solo/duo) that he is not running with a premade or a warband to sustain a glassy approach, if the former is the case then relying on ini debuffs or a debuffbot mara might be more feasible than stacking crit through RR to allow him to pick other goodies to help sustain himself in 6vX, if the latter is concerned he can go almost full glass but would still need enough RR to grab atleast R1 RD.

Trivial Blows = -critdmg, but it isn't available on RoR.

Resolute Defense is the only pick shown in this video that is worth it for his purposes, and a full stack of RD won't be cost effective, necessary or possible whilst being low RR.
He might aswell pick RD/CW/avoidances/wounds/toughness as they actually yield better returns regardless of the format he plays in.

Given the lack of dynamic damage making ragedumps almost entirely useless when facing DoT-heavy classes, CW is almost mandatory for soloroaming - unless he manages to consistently run into soloing derps, gets the jump on them and can sustain himself with pots until he manages to seal the deal; runs with a healer on a regular basis.

With plenty of possibilities to stack avoidance with tomesets/some of the genesis stuff/some of the lair jewelry an avoidance stack will probably net him the best returns, especially if he has a pocket tank to HtL dance around him - and even if not, getting to +25%ish avoidance across the board should easily be possible. Considering the lack of dynamic damage even resistances are neglible in roaming; most of the magical damage one can face is based on DoTs or similar abilties - good player will drop those things the moment you go all shiny and big anyways. (Especially since how potent avoidance is in general, stacking avoidance can never go wrong - one might, depending on the circumstances [= format/group composition], lose some dps potential but it cannot backfire as good returns are guranteed.)

Toughness would net him better returns if he were able to stack it higher; if he runs DWLF investing into toughness is an utter waste of talisman slots (one should never consider pumping RR into plain stats if one is still sub70; literally everything else yields better returns for the points spent), considering most toughness he can aquire will be chewed through by fluff debuffs even whilst roaming.

Wounds is the all-time stat, if you don't know what to do just stack wounds, bolstering your HP never hurts and accounts for literally every source of damage, morales included.

I'd suggest initiative aswell if it weren't for a destro class being up against a high average static crit (either by virtue of group composition or own tactics, more often than not in combination with potent initiative debuffs [especially roaming classes like WH/AM/SW have a field day with crit whilst on their own]). As a destro class you have a hard time negating crit in general, the little bit of initative you have access to won't do the trick. Even FS might not only be a medicore waste but an incredible waste of points depending on your opposition.

Once again: Live footage is insubstantial. People back then specced the way they did because they had a completely diffrent set of resources to work with and ultimately played a completly diffrent game alltogether because of that.

TLDR:
Avoidance + Wounds > else; negating a portion of attacks completly/upping HP pool to survive (semi-)static amounts of bursts that you cannot push below neglible levels (WL/BW/... | morales) > negating a portion of attacks partially.

Armor/Resistance aren't worth it. The former due to potent armordebuffs and the career mechanic, even on live. The latter on RoR due to lack of dynamic damage and the way magical damage is applied in the most prominent cases (BW/Engi/AM) - while SMs almost completly cut through the resistances accessible in soloraom either way.
[snip - mixed up morales here]

Toughness is only worth the investment if you can get it to 500ish and even then its lackluster (on Choppas, given their career mechanic chewing away at armor/resistance making the mitigation not worthwhile - even post-overhaul); is not an option for Choppas unless they happen to run with a Shaman that sports the now unviable (due to .ab ex) DSU.

Futile Strike/Initiative are neglible for the <most part>, given average accessible crit (and initiative debuffs on the most prominent roaming candidates) on order in virtually every format/composition and on every class. If you happen to run the def SCs weapons and the other -CTBC goodies it might be worth a shot, but I assume you (OP) do not.

Edit: Words and stuff.

thnx for the advice

[Darosh]

Spoiler:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buzqBa_k7Xs , just to give u an idea on which RR ability to chose

Do the math on that one ~ hint: thats 100 RR points spent, with about half of them blown into a RR ability that isn't even available.

Blademaster = WS won't cut it on RoR given that to utilize WS you need BiS gear and high RR or don't even need to bother; 500-600 WS for 40-50% armorpen is a treshold only worth surpassing if you can approach softcap. In regards to the parry gained... well unlike destro tanks, their order equivalents (especially KotBS - runefang *cough*) don't have any issues whatsoever getting their STR up to sufficient enough levels (+500-700) to completly bypass the natural avoidance WS offers - without even getting off their deftard schtick (KotBS) or sacrifice defense otherwise (IB, SM) - even if you approach the softcap, the net benefit in terms of parry is miniscule.
While you on the other hand - if you do not fullfill the requirements - will sacrifice a metric shitton of stats across the board to approach the WS softcap or are locking yourself into some gimmicky gear setup to gain a miniscule parry bonus.
Mdps are mdps softcapping STR, rdps are rdps and therefor do not care about parry - if you run into deftard WPs, or any melee diehard-deftards out there in the lakes you'll benefit from the WS-powered parry, given that they'll either have quite some trouble softcapping str or aren't even trying to do so.

Opportunist = melee crit, depends highly on the format he plays in, the gear he sports and the spec he chooses to run (he can run a variant that offers a 100% critchance for 3s on being defended against, which is workable in roaming) - it is entirely offensive so it defeats the purpose of his question.
Considering hes asking for defense its likely (in fact he states that hes running solo/duo) that he is not running with a premade or a warband to sustain a glassy approach, if the former is the case then relying on ini debuffs or a debuffbot mara might be more feasible than stacking crit through RR to allow him to pick other goodies to help sustain himself in 6vX, if the latter is concerned he can go almost full glass but would still need enough RR to grab atleast R1 RD.

Trivial Blows = -critdmg, but it isn't available on RoR.

Resolute Defense is the only pick shown in this video that is worth it for his purposes, and a full stack of RD won't be cost effective, necessary or possible whilst being low RR.
He might aswell pick RD/CW/avoidances/wounds/toughness as they actually yield better returns regardless of the format he plays in.

Given the lack of dynamic damage making ragedumps almost entirely useless when facing DoT-heavy classes, CW is almost mandatory for soloroaming - unless he manages to consistently run into soloing derps, gets the jump on them and can sustain himself with pots until he manages to seal the deal; runs with a healer on a regular basis.

With plenty of possibilities to stack avoidance with tomesets/some of the genesis stuff/some of the lair jewelry an avoidance stack will probably net him the best returns, especially if he has a pocket tank to HtL dance around him - and even if not, getting to +25%ish avoidance across the board should easily be possible. Considering the lack of dynamic damage even resistances are neglible in roaming; most of the magical damage one can face is based on DoTs or similar abilties - good player will drop those things the moment you go all shiny and big anyways. (Especially since how potent avoidance is in general, stacking avoidance can never go wrong - one might, depending on the circumstances [= format/group composition], lose some dps potential but it cannot backfire as good returns are guranteed.)

Toughness would net him better returns if he were able to stack it higher; if he runs DWLF investing into toughness is an utter waste of talisman slots (one should never consider pumping RR into plain stats if one is still sub70; literally everything else yields better returns for the points spent), considering most toughness he can aquire will be chewed through by fluff debuffs even whilst roaming.

Wounds is the all-time stat, if you don't know what to do just stack wounds, bolstering your HP never hurts and accounts for literally every source of damage, morales included.

I'd suggest initiative aswell if it weren't for a destro class being up against a high average static crit (either by virtue of group composition or own tactics, more often than not in combination with potent initiative debuffs [especially roaming classes like WH/AM/SW have a field day with crit whilst on their own]). As a destro class you have a hard time negating crit in general, the little bit of initative you have access to won't do the trick. Even FS might not only be a medicore waste but an incredible waste of points depending on your opposition.

Once again: Live footage is insubstantial. People back then specced the way they did because they had a completely diffrent set of resources to work with and ultimately played a completly diffrent game alltogether because of that.

TLDR:
Avoidance + Wounds > else; negating a portion of attacks completly/upping HP pool to survive (semi-)static amounts of bursts that you cannot push below neglible levels (WL/BW/... | morales) > negating a portion of attacks partially.

Armor/Resistance aren't worth it. The former due to potent armordebuffs and the career mechanic, even on live. The latter on RoR due to lack of dynamic damage and the way magical damage is applied in the most prominent cases (BW/Engi/AM) - while SMs almost completly cut through the resistances accessible in soloraom either way.
[snip - mixed up morales here]

Toughness is only worth the investment if you can get it to 500ish and even then its lackluster (on Choppas, given their career mechanic chewing away at armor/resistance making the mitigation not worthwhile - even post-overhaul); is not an option for Choppas unless they happen to run with a Shaman that sports the now unviable (due to .ab ex) DSU.

Futile Strike/Initiative are neglible for the <most part>, given average accessible crit (and initiative debuffs on the most prominent roaming candidates) on order in virtually every format/composition and on every class. If you happen to run the def SCs weapons and the other -CTBC goodies it might be worth a shot, but I assume you (OP) do not.

Edit: Words and stuff.

thnx for the advice

First things first, you might wanna spoiler wall-of-texts or outright snip 'em, it'll still summon the person you qoute.

Just to make sure you don't draw wrong conclusions in regards to dynamic damage and resistances, in case you play another class:
The dynamic damage influences Choppa/Slayer-play the most, however other classes are affected aswell by a great extent - the entire game actually - but resists and such are alot more valueable (= actually reliable) on other classes than on that pair.
If you play anything relying on DoTs (or debuffs for that matter), make sure you DO NOT refresh your DoTs if you applied them AFTER a debuff or similar effects (and don't refresh debuffs if you/your group do not have to reapply DoTs either, its a waste of gcds), the damage dealt is based on the effective stats at the moment of application.
The same goes for proc-related tactics on Sorc/BW/WP/DoK, you can buff up your group and have them run the enhanced version - you'll lose it however - and swap to another tactic set after the fact.

You might wanna utilize that bit to your advantage if you run such a class/group/warband or ofc against Choppa/Slayer ~ it greatly impacts everyones performance... some of the balance struggle wouldn't be a thing either, if it weren't for that tech limitation.

[Luth]

and SM's who got a 30% damage increase across the board.

What do you mean with that? "Th3gatekeeper" posted the same a while ago and i asked him what he meant, though i never got an answer.

Edit: This is not an attempt to derail the thread; i really just like to know why people believe there was a flat 30% damage increase for SM on RoR, because i think this is again just some gossip spread by a single individual, which comes from wrong conclusions/circular argumentation and others adapted it without thinking about it or demanding any evidence.

[Wdova]

This guy used to be pretty good back of live, if I remember he stacked a lot of toughness.

https://youtu.be/ryk56lbeI8U


https://youtu.be/Q0TDR8D1B5A

Horrible example. Idea of 2H Choppa going solo is much worse than idea of Choppa going solo

Like was previously mentioned. Avoidance and wounds are your best friends. Non of those is affected by your rage mechanic. I remember some slayers stacking armor back on live combined with dwarf armor tactic, but those players were far above rr 80 and defensive sets helped them a lot.

Stacking for extra high weapon skill is not rewarding enought. Your main goal is to kill squishies, not tanks. 500-600 ws is enough to kill robe/light armors especialy if You are supported with classes who can debuff armor(Mara, BG, BO). With that kind of assist not even tanks are safe.

I dont see the point going deep in defensive with DPS class. Better is build up for offensive and play defensively. Use detaunt wisely, same as charge and M1(parry or absorb one). Invest some rr in to parry(10 or 20pts), disrubt(10pts) and maybe CW(10pts). Rest in offensive stats.

[roadkillrobin]

and SM's who got a 30% damage increase across the board.

What do you mean with that? "Th3gatekeeper" posted the same a while ago and i asked him what he meant, though i never got an answer.

Edit: This is not an attempt to derail the thread; i really just like to know why people believe there was a flat 30% damage increase for SM on RoR, because i think this is again just some gossip spread by a single individual, which comes from wrong conclusions/circular argumentation and others adapted it without thinking about it or demanding any evidence.

Moast likley refering to Spirit damage and able to reduce it to a dmg increase of around 35% if stacking it. And the fact the the softcap for resist is much lower then armor means you pretty much always gonna get full value from it while other tanks see massive deminishing returns from armor debuffs due to weaponskill and much higher armor caps wich ressaults in like 5-10% increase for moast armor debuffs. Even if you don't run em in stacks its still a solid 20% increase for the SM aslong as you press the WoH skill.

I might have made some math misstakes coz i don't really know were weaponskill actually starts working tho but i think thats what they are refering to.

[dansari]

I'd like to see Luth's response to this. My thought is.. you mean SM get a damage buff from something in their kit? I don't understand the thought process, but I'm also a scrub so maybe I'm missing something.

[roadkillrobin]

I responded way to messy. Have explain it better later when not on phone.

[Arteker616]

and SM's who got a 30% damage increase across the board.

What do you mean with that? "Th3gatekeeper" posted the same a while ago and i asked him what he meant, though i never got an answer.

Edit: This is not an attempt to derail the thread; i really just like to know why people believe there was a flat 30% damage increase for SM on RoR, because i think this is again just some gossip spread by a single individual, which comes from wrong conclusions/circular argumentation and others adapted it without thinking about it or demanding any evidence.

Making stacking Debuffs for Sm while not doing the same for Black orc own resists bellow proc made the sm being able to actualy totally shutdown enemy spiritual resist . that provided Sm with a superior flat damage increase on any target.