@aquilon what point? Str only affects the parry via WS. So your "point" on not having enough str to bypass parry is ridiculous. Str doesn't affect parry from RR, equipment, tactics, dual wield, etc.
You can get plenty of STR. Super easily without breaking your build to be 100%melee based... so what's your point?
Buffing the Shadow Warrior/What change would you like to see?
Forum rules
Before posting in this forum, please read the Terms of Use.
Optional: Start your topic title with your class in brackets (e.g., [Shaman]). It helps others find your post faster.
Before posting in this forum, please read the Terms of Use.
Optional: Start your topic title with your class in brackets (e.g., [Shaman]). It helps others find your post faster.
Ads
Re: Buffing the Shadow Warrior/What change would you like to see?
First off I must say I've not played RoR SW much, been busy with modding my rig and writing a novel to get serious about it yet - hopefully I'll be back in game soon. That said, my input on the suggestions in here for what its worth:
Whirling pin self punt was the most rediculious thing to give us SW frankly, they never should have done that, it made zero sense in lore, nor in game play needs (basically they caved to crying scout stance primaries who didn't dance or move around.) If I had been less intrigued by melee combat (and a good fight) I would/could have been near untouchable; some of our skirmish SW in fact were. As an assaulter looking for a rush I didn't use it "properly," but even with my primary melee play-style it made it way to easy to defeat a single combatant... way to easy.
As far as the suggestion of bringing back minimum range goes I'd be a bit peeved. Minimum range makes assault primary pretty much nonviable and it's a huge dis-service to the 'spirit' of the SW's "jack-of-all-trades, master of none" status in Warhammer Lore. Frankly the AP disaster of playing assault primary and lack of toughness and gear for such a build makes it plenty hard to play, it doesn't need the additional handicap of min range shackles. If you're playing scout primary, it's pretty nasty due to the ability timers; you can get around it via dancing, sure, but if the SW's in RoR aren't dancing now, they will very likely rage quit over min range. I mean 99% of the whole "Shadow Warrior's suck" myth was due to minimum range, that's why it was gotten rid of in patch v1.3.6
Taking the stance requirement off Lileath's Arrow and Takedown is a seriously bad idea. You don't want to know what I could do with LA and TD in assault stance...
"allowing the assault SW the ability to go dual-wield - at the cost of having SIGNIFICANTLY weakened bow attacks/a 1minute CD (or so) on being able to swap to the bow" -- Personally, I completely reject this suggestion as that would wreck assaulter's who rely on DOT's from both bow and sword in order to do any significant damage, the damage on the bow is already nerfed by swapping BAL to STR is it not? As far as the 1m CD thing I think that would absolutely trash primary skirmish and scout who only use assault as an 'emergency' stance.
Random ramblings about builds and stats:
Not sure how it translates to RoR because I've been extremely lazy playing on RoR - been too busy modding my computer and writing a novel to get into it yet - but I found WS to be very important if you were serious about melee, more important than cranking STR over the low to mid 800s for sure.
When live went down I was running 832STR and 653WS (RR82ish) - 18point Assault/11point Skirmish I'd guess (maybe a bit less spent in Assault for dropping Swift Strikes.)
A bit dated here, but back when I was in the low RR60's on live I did an extensive series playing with Assault stance; I ran 996STR and 538WS - all the details of that (with training, stats, and videos) here: http://sexybootsrule.com/melee/index.html (Though I'd have to change some of the stuff I'd written and suggested during patch v1.3.3. A later patch neutered our damage and Lilath's Arrow came into being the answer to get through defenses. ie LA zerg buster; skirmish primary/low assault secondary - https://youtu.be/ZLoFdtgPgeQ )
By far my favorite all around build in the 60-80RR range was a Skirmish/Assault split which I ran from around RR74 until RR78 under patch v1.3.6 - gave me LA bomb for zerg and decent skirmish and assault single target. Best example video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcluZXg ... F&index=26 but that build is in my Growing Up Sexy Boots videos 7.3 (RR73) through 7.8 (RR78), at RR79 I got bored and went primary assault/low skirmish secondary.
My Memories of SW life
Patch 1.3.6 was the hay day for SW's of all stances. RR80+ our damage was absolutely crap-holed by negligible penetration and there just wasn't anywhere else to get more WS or even crit into the build (gear or otherwise) - it seriously killed SW moral (some other classes too.) I lost my entire guild over it (all SW guild) For Scout players it was basically the end of the game. If you compare my deeps and scout playing at RR72 in patch v1.3.6 damage video https://youtu.be/5Ws4pfDITMI (which was my answer to SW's QQing that they couldn't do any damage without VoN & SA) to the beginning of this one https://youtu.be/sHDthjzXnss?list=PLBB0DF08233043B6F you can see just how devastating it was for scout deeps (and that was after months of retooling trying to make scout work.) Contrary to basically every game in the world, achieving RR80 was a very sad day for the vast majority of Sexy Boot's.
Patch 1.4.4 attempted to fix that absolute disaster, but recovery was negligible for all but pro SW's (even some of the pros; I convinced some of my guildies to come back and they basically said 'too little, too late' :*( ) Sexy Boots are just tough to balance because nerfing Scout FA bombers trashes the other stances, buffing Skirmish and/or Assault damage makes Scout OP. It's just a very tricky class for devs to deal with...
Full List of Shadow Warrior Patches if anyone's interested:
As a note I've got close to 80 Shadow Warrior videos in every build up on my YouTube channel from WAR live if anyone wants to watch an (mostly assault spec) SW be suicidal 
- https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbWtlz ... TKuOxAxw4A
I might recommend my Booties playlist for new SW players, I was attempting to play a SW "like you really should" with stance dancing and using all the classes abilities - Alas they shut the server down before I got into tier 2, but it's still a decent showing. Also note that series was done with minimum range on SW's.
TIP for stance dancing because I agree it's 100% needed if you're going to get serious about playing Sexy Boot's: I've always used only two keybinds for stance switching, by putting the stances on your action bars they swap with your dance. (IE when you're in scout, your action bar has skirmish and assault on it, in Assault your action bar has skirmish and scout on it, this prevents accidentally putting yourself stanceless and conserves your keybinding requirements for dancing.) Also note, dancing via point n click is near impossible heh Secondary note, L2Strafe probably the single most important change I made to improve my play style.
Whirling pin self punt was the most rediculious thing to give us SW frankly, they never should have done that, it made zero sense in lore, nor in game play needs (basically they caved to crying scout stance primaries who didn't dance or move around.) If I had been less intrigued by melee combat (and a good fight) I would/could have been near untouchable; some of our skirmish SW in fact were. As an assaulter looking for a rush I didn't use it "properly," but even with my primary melee play-style it made it way to easy to defeat a single combatant... way to easy.
As far as the suggestion of bringing back minimum range goes I'd be a bit peeved. Minimum range makes assault primary pretty much nonviable and it's a huge dis-service to the 'spirit' of the SW's "jack-of-all-trades, master of none" status in Warhammer Lore. Frankly the AP disaster of playing assault primary and lack of toughness and gear for such a build makes it plenty hard to play, it doesn't need the additional handicap of min range shackles. If you're playing scout primary, it's pretty nasty due to the ability timers; you can get around it via dancing, sure, but if the SW's in RoR aren't dancing now, they will very likely rage quit over min range. I mean 99% of the whole "Shadow Warrior's suck" myth was due to minimum range, that's why it was gotten rid of in patch v1.3.6
Taking the stance requirement off Lileath's Arrow and Takedown is a seriously bad idea. You don't want to know what I could do with LA and TD in assault stance...
"allowing the assault SW the ability to go dual-wield - at the cost of having SIGNIFICANTLY weakened bow attacks/a 1minute CD (or so) on being able to swap to the bow" -- Personally, I completely reject this suggestion as that would wreck assaulter's who rely on DOT's from both bow and sword in order to do any significant damage, the damage on the bow is already nerfed by swapping BAL to STR is it not? As far as the 1m CD thing I think that would absolutely trash primary skirmish and scout who only use assault as an 'emergency' stance.
Random ramblings about builds and stats:
Not sure how it translates to RoR because I've been extremely lazy playing on RoR - been too busy modding my computer and writing a novel to get into it yet - but I found WS to be very important if you were serious about melee, more important than cranking STR over the low to mid 800s for sure.
When live went down I was running 832STR and 653WS (RR82ish) - 18point Assault/11point Skirmish I'd guess (maybe a bit less spent in Assault for dropping Swift Strikes.)
A bit dated here, but back when I was in the low RR60's on live I did an extensive series playing with Assault stance; I ran 996STR and 538WS - all the details of that (with training, stats, and videos) here: http://sexybootsrule.com/melee/index.html (Though I'd have to change some of the stuff I'd written and suggested during patch v1.3.3. A later patch neutered our damage and Lilath's Arrow came into being the answer to get through defenses. ie LA zerg buster; skirmish primary/low assault secondary - https://youtu.be/ZLoFdtgPgeQ )
By far my favorite all around build in the 60-80RR range was a Skirmish/Assault split which I ran from around RR74 until RR78 under patch v1.3.6 - gave me LA bomb for zerg and decent skirmish and assault single target. Best example video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcluZXg ... F&index=26 but that build is in my Growing Up Sexy Boots videos 7.3 (RR73) through 7.8 (RR78), at RR79 I got bored and went primary assault/low skirmish secondary.
My Memories of SW life
Patch 1.3.6 was the hay day for SW's of all stances. RR80+ our damage was absolutely crap-holed by negligible penetration and there just wasn't anywhere else to get more WS or even crit into the build (gear or otherwise) - it seriously killed SW moral (some other classes too.) I lost my entire guild over it (all SW guild) For Scout players it was basically the end of the game. If you compare my deeps and scout playing at RR72 in patch v1.3.6 damage video https://youtu.be/5Ws4pfDITMI (which was my answer to SW's QQing that they couldn't do any damage without VoN & SA) to the beginning of this one https://youtu.be/sHDthjzXnss?list=PLBB0DF08233043B6F you can see just how devastating it was for scout deeps (and that was after months of retooling trying to make scout work.) Contrary to basically every game in the world, achieving RR80 was a very sad day for the vast majority of Sexy Boot's.
Patch 1.4.4 attempted to fix that absolute disaster, but recovery was negligible for all but pro SW's (even some of the pros; I convinced some of my guildies to come back and they basically said 'too little, too late' :*( ) Sexy Boots are just tough to balance because nerfing Scout FA bombers trashes the other stances, buffing Skirmish and/or Assault damage makes Scout OP. It's just a very tricky class for devs to deal with...Full List of Shadow Warrior Patches if anyone's interested:
Spoiler:
- https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbWtlz ... TKuOxAxw4AI might recommend my Booties playlist for new SW players, I was attempting to play a SW "like you really should" with stance dancing and using all the classes abilities - Alas they shut the server down before I got into tier 2, but it's still a decent showing. Also note that series was done with minimum range on SW's.
TIP for stance dancing because I agree it's 100% needed if you're going to get serious about playing Sexy Boot's: I've always used only two keybinds for stance switching, by putting the stances on your action bars they swap with your dance. (IE when you're in scout, your action bar has skirmish and assault on it, in Assault your action bar has skirmish and scout on it, this prevents accidentally putting yourself stanceless and conserves your keybinding requirements for dancing.) Also note, dancing via point n click is near impossible heh Secondary note, L2Strafe probably the single most important change I made to improve my play style.
Re: Buffing the Shadow Warrior/What change would you like to see?
All right SW play always at least 2 stances (Scout/As, Scirm/As, As/Scirm). It is interesting to recall all of the patches.
The local administration bombed by the SW and RDD in general, so the changes are mainly negative.
The local administration bombed by the SW and RDD in general, so the changes are mainly negative.
Petitbras (SW), Threeend (BW), Arrgoor (SL), Popovich (KoTBs), Semenich (Eng), Ancle (WP), Lastalien (WL), Alienessa (AM)
Movies
Movies
Spoiler:
Re: Buffing the Shadow Warrior/What change would you like to see?
Thank you Mystriss for showing me that information, I will have to try out your stance theory, what keybinds do you use? What is L2strife by the way?
Eldoir Duskoath SW 40/71 Shadowmaster of the Eternal Host
Strike swiftly aim true
Strike swiftly aim true
-
roadkillrobin
- Posts: 2773
Re: Buffing the Shadow Warrior/What change would you like to see?
Imo SW (and SH) needs some kinda bonus for switching between melee and ranged.They were both designed to be hybrid archetypes and they should be as effective as mdps as they are as rdps if they spec like that. Imo, the problem is the limitation of tactic slots. I think Assault Stance/Squig Armor should have its own seperate tactic bar that switches automaticly when the stance is activated nomather if you're in combat or not.
-
saupreusse
- Former Staff
- Posts: 2483
Re: Buffing the Shadow Warrior/What change would you like to see?
The tactics are the biggest problem imo. Take all the (more or less neccessary) tactics for melee and congratulations! You just crippled your rdps to an extend where it just cant compete with any other rdps in a competitive environment. Sw will never be a 100% melee so you need dmg output both on your ranged but also on your melee skills and right now you can only choose between one of these two (maybe its just our low lvl equipment but on live this somewhat worked a bit better). Also i still couldnt find out why i would stay in scout. besides a dull festerbomb every 2 minutes it hits like a wet noodle.
Saup - RR 8x WP
Songohan - RR 8x AM
Songohan - RR 8x AM
Re: Buffing the Shadow Warrior/What change would you like to see?
Mebbe stance switching that change archetype should be allowed linked 2nd tactic sets?
A reasonable RvR system that could make the majority happy http://imgur.com/HL6cgl7
Re: Buffing the Shadow Warrior/What change would you like to see?
Isn't it possible to make bows 2H weapons ?
I would adjust/slight increase the dmg of SFA or make SW's Skirmish stance not so WS dependent.
I would adjust/slight increase the dmg of SFA or make SW's Skirmish stance not so WS dependent.
Optimuss - WL - rr57
Ogimir - SW - rr65
Ogimir - SW - rr65
Ads
-
peterthepan3
- Posts: 6509
Re: Buffing the Shadow Warrior/What change would you like to see?
If you are playing a melee SW, you lack any escape tools. The movement a melee train is on a WE/WH, they can self punt; a DPS DOK/WP can aoe punt; a Choppa/SL/WL/Mara can charge away. A melee sw? Disarm/KD (potentially wasting CC) and hope for the best. Whirling Pin is a welcome addition to melee SW/SH.Mystriss wrote: Whirling pin self punt was the most rediculious thing to give us SW frankly, they never should have done that, it made zero sense in lore, nor in game play needs (basically they caved to crying scout stance primaries who didn't dance or move around.) If I had been less intrigued by melee combat (and a good fight) I would/could have been near untouchable; some of our skirmish SW in fact were. As an assaulter looking for a rush I didn't use it "properly," but even with my primary melee play-style it made it way to easy to defeat a single combatant... way to easy.
Defeating a single combatant (solo roaming/1v1) has no bearing on balancing a class around group play.
Not sure anyone proposed bringing back the minimal range thing. I agree with you on that.As far as the suggestion of bringing back minimum range goes I'd be a bit peeved. Minimum range makes assault primary pretty much nonviable and it's a huge dis-service to the 'spirit' of the SW's "jack-of-all-trades, master of none" status in Warhammer Lore. Frankly the AP disaster of playing assault primary and lack of toughness and gear for such a build makes it plenty hard to play, it doesn't need the additional handicap of min range shackles. If you're playing scout primary, it's pretty nasty due to the ability timers; you can get around it via dancing, sure, but if the SW's in RoR aren't dancing now, they will very likely rage quit over min range. I mean 99% of the whole "Shadow Warrior's suck" myth was due to minimum range, that's why it was gotten rid of in patch v1.3.6
Note: the X second CD (30/60/whatever) would ONLY pertain to those SWs who had invested in the tactic. Given that, as per what I proposed, said tactic would be moved really high up in the Assault tree and, thus, only really be taken by dedicated melee SWs, it would have no bearing on Skirmish/Scout and the CD would remain the same for them. In retrospect, the ranged damage is already gimped somewhat while in Assault stance (as you said), but I just thought that if we are to make the melee SW viable in melee range, then at the very least it ought to have a CD on its stance-swapping potential (ONLY those Assault SWs who have the tactic)"allowing the assault SW the ability to go dual-wield - at the cost of having SIGNIFICANTLY weakened bow attacks/a 1minute CD (or so) on being able to swap to the bow" -- Personally, I completely reject this suggestion as that would wreck assaulter's who rely on DOT's from both bow and sword in order to do any significant damage, the damage on the bow is already nerfed by swapping BAL to STR is it not? As far as the 1m CD thing I think that would absolutely trash primary skirmish and scout who only use assault as an 'emergency' stance.
The idea of the SW being a jack of all trades is nice and all, but does't really translate well into competitive group play. Noone is saying that the SW shouldn't be utilising their stance-dance mechanic (same with Marauder), but if Assault SW is to be made viable (as it stands now, it is gimmicky and only useful for M2+Whispering Winds bouts/solo killing - lacks survivability, too, as you said, especially with the ws/str tactic), the other specs must not benefit.
But isn't that the idea of going melee? You give up a lot of your ranged potency/utility (leading shots, for example), to get dual-wield, access to some new inherent buffs, and the aesthetic appeal? You'll never be AS good as a MDPS, but there's no reason why you can't function as one - allthewhile bringing ranged potential, should you need to use it. I mean if we want Assault to be viable, then there must be restrictions on its synergy with other specs (moreso than Scout and/or Skirmish synergy, given the archetypal difference between Scout/Skirm and Assault)sau wrote:The tactics are the biggest problem imo. Take all the (more or less neccessary) tactics for melee and congratulations! You just crippled your rdps to an extend where it just cant compete with any other rdps in a competitive environment.
Re: Buffing the Shadow Warrior/What change would you like to see?
Main problem for Assault SW is AP. Developers need to solve this problem for a successful change Assault stance. This may be a decrease in the number of AP on mele skills, or other way for change - full transfer of Range Critical chance to mele.
I think it's a good idea - to recycle detaunt - aoe detaunt w/o additional AoE tactics for assault stance.
I think it's a good idea - to recycle detaunt - aoe detaunt w/o additional AoE tactics for assault stance.
Petitbras (SW), Threeend (BW), Arrgoor (SL), Popovich (KoTBs), Semenich (Eng), Ancle (WP), Lastalien (WL), Alienessa (AM)
Movies
Movies
Spoiler:
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests
Sitemap
Account
CSS 3 and HTML 5 compliant
Copyright © 2013 - 2024 Return of Reckoning Ltd. All rights reserved.