General state of classes and Order/Destruction

[Daknallbomb]

am /shammy ab ex mode with all his changes

[Arteker616]

Hmmm most Things here not true.. Order grps with kotbs + sw still can buff crit stats where destru can dream for.. As i heared from most engi players keg was Just a "gimmik" and has nearly nö impact on orvr If u play competiv. And the Argument with Moral pump.... Well in orvr destru need Moral 4 where order need Moral 2 to push effektiv

BG+Mara+BO can buff crit on a target by ~30%? Crimson death, deeply impaled, and ini steal. Destro can actually stack more crit than order now, granted you have to run a 2h BG over chosen.

Why does destro need morale 4 to push?

pherhaps because bo stats steal need to hit and pray it hit ini . while sw has a ranged kd wich aswell debuff ini enabling a kd to become another critic multiplier ,,,,,,,,,
u very fast to talk about order nerfs but not so much about destru ones .

[zumos2]

That sounds a lot better than it was when the official version was live. Crit has always been a horrid mechanic in MMOs as it reduces the skill required to win when an enormous amount of damage/healing is caused by chance.

This comment just made me go wow ...

It's objectively true. RNG opposes skill.

If you are talking about completely removing crit chance then it would be true. But the comment was made based on reducing overal crit chance in the game and then it is objectively wrong.

If you reduce the overall crit chance the value of getting a crit goes up. After all you should still be able to kill people with lower crit chance meaning the power of a non-crits are relatively higher. The chance of you getting that lucky crit or a couple in a row is reduced, but the power of it is increased, meaning that a fight is actually more likely to be decided by a couple of lucky crits.

Now you can say that healing crit chance is also reduced, but I would argue that offensive crit chance is in a certain way more valuable than healing crit. That is because healing crit is then meant to counter the offensive crits. Now the fact that the offensive crit is random isn't much of an issue, but once a target is critical damaged you would need a critical heal to counter the damage, meaning only those healing crits are actually valuable. What it boils down to is that many healing crits will just do useless overhealing whereas damage crits are practically always valuable. If you would remove crit completely from the game I doubt many non-morale kills are going to be made in high competetive play. This shows the relative increase of healers when crit is reduced, which to come back does indeed mean that the value of damage spells would have to go up to countereffect in these lower crit chance scenarios.

[Jaycub]

That sounds a lot better than it was when the official version was live. Crit has always been a horrid mechanic in MMOs as it reduces the skill required to win when an enormous amount of damage/healing is caused by chance.

This comment just made me go wow ...

It's objectively true. RNG opposes skill.

RNG can be cool if done right, not sure I can defend any of it in this game though. Dota2 moved everything virtually over to pseudo RNG, is something like that possible here? Funnily enough virtually all the RNG dependent heroes never see play in the professional scene in any patch I can remember if thats any indicator of RNG/Skill.

There's the whole argument of risk management being a skill, but that's for when RNG creates situations that would otherwise not exist, or influences gameplay. I don't think anyone in warhammer really approaches situations any different based on critical strikes, and as far as I know there aren't any RNG based skills.

[Bozzax]

Stop nonsens good groups win 99% bad groups loose 99%. Where is the RNG

[Tifereth]

Stop nonsens good groups win 99% bad groups loose 99%. Pretty much proof you are 100% incorrect

Very much off-topic, but your post count is at 1337. You must stop posting now forever.

[Jaycub]

Stop nonsens good groups win 99% bad groups loose 99%. Where is the RNG

Yes, but no one really cares about bad matchups. It's about when 2 equally skilled groups meet each other.

[Haojin]

Destro is a bit better, a lot of major things order side got nerfed.

>knight crit gutted to 10%/5%
>leading shots cut in half
>triple shatter gone
>White lion 10 sec pounce
>Keg nerfed to group only (big hit to ORvR)

Destro still has it's insane morale pumps which are much more effective on this server than on live because of morale gain, dok M2 got nerfed from titanlike to godlike status. Mara got a small nerf to thunderous blow uptime.

Balance is ongoing tho, and it might just be people not wanting to open up nerf this proposals on balance forums.

For all general purposes, RDPS are much better than MDPS right now. Some really good changes to AM/Shaman made them comeptitive with the other healers now. You pretty much can't go wrong if you roll anything that isn't a MDPS or IB/BG.

BG+Mara+BO can buff crit on a target by ~30%? Crimson death, deeply impaled, and ini steal. Destro can actually stack more crit than order now, granted you have to run a 2h BG over chosen.

Nice troll m8.

[Daknallbomb]

In his World Its no troll

[Panzerkasper]

Destro is a bit better, a lot of major things order side got nerfed.

>knight crit gutted to 10%/5%
>leading shots cut in half
>triple shatter gone
>White lion 10 sec pounce
>Keg nerfed to group only (big hit to ORvR)

Destro still has it's insane morale pumps which are much more effective on this server than on live because of morale gain, dok M2 got nerfed from titanlike to godlike status. Mara got a small nerf to thunderous blow uptime.

Balance is ongoing tho, and it might just be people not wanting to open up nerf this proposals on balance forums.

For all general purposes, RDPS are much better than MDPS right now. Some really good changes to AM/Shaman made them comeptitive with the other healers now. You pretty much can't go wrong if you roll anything that isn't a MDPS or IB/BG.

Just to put things into the right direction.
The crit stacking was waaaaaay too good, it's a long time overdue nerf that is well deserved. The CD on Punce and the removal of tripple shatter made the shaman finally viable as a healer, becaue he couldnt be countered completly anymore. One knight with triple shatter made a shaman completly useless and the 0cd pounce was just a middle finger rubbed into the face of every kiter class.
All the adjustments to engi have been absolutly right. The eg nerf was needed, because it was like having another 2-4 healers in a SC. I'd still say that Magus/Engi needed a mobility buff, but the way it is right now the classes are good, not for 6vs6 maybe idk, but for WB scale fights they are pretty good.

Btw forgot the shatter limps nerf? Also well deserved and Slayer is still strong and better then its Counterpart.

As the Matter of Rdps, its not that they are generally better, its just that the Order Rps are better then their counterparts, since 2 of the 3 rpds classes still have the range KD as a very reliable CC. So why play mdps if you have equally strong and safer to play rdps equivalents?