Return of Reckoning

Penril wrote: b) Exclusively a PvE tactic.

It's an amazing pve tactic. And as a i heard it becomes really good for pvp with endgame gear. So the tactic should be changed unless we will be getting much better gear then we currently have and/or pve content.

GodlessCrom wrote:Since pve is not at all the focus of the server currently, I think it's clear we should discuss it as option 1.

I believe it is option 1. It basically is the same as Divine Fury (tactic that turns healers into DPS). The reason DF doesn't have an aggro management element attached to it is because healers have Subtlety. Maybe that's also the reason why DF has a damage bonus of 25% instead of 15% like FO (since, arguably, healers would need 2 tactics to fill up a DPS spot for PvE; though we all know this is not the case if your tank is good).

Btw, devs do care a lot about PvE.

megadeath wrote: It's an amazing pve tactic. And as a i heard it becomes really good for pvp with endgame gear. So the tactic should be changed unless we will be getting much better gear then we currently have and/or pve content.

Unfortunately, "i heard it becomes really good" is not a valid argument. If you think it is a pretty good tactic for PvP in end-game gear, please explain why.

In other words, try to debunk the issue raised by OP.

Penril wrote:

megadeath wrote: It's an amazing pve tactic. And as a i heard it becomes really good for pvp with endgame gear. So the tactic should be changed unless we will be getting much better gear then we currently have and/or pve content.

Unfortunately, "i heard it becomes really good" is not a valid argument. If you think it is a pretty good tactic for PvP in end-game gear, please explain why.

In other words, try to debunk the issue raised by OP.

I never played retail, but there was a discussion about this tactic in my guild, and people said this tactic becomes really good, when you have so much armor that 33% armor penalty doesnt even matter.

In addition, devs have said we will never have the ridiculous armor values possible on live.

megadeath wrote:

Penril wrote:

megadeath wrote: It's an amazing pve tactic. And as a i heard it becomes really good for pvp with endgame gear. So the tactic should be changed unless we will be getting much better gear then we currently have and/or pve content.

Unfortunately, "i heard it becomes really good" is not a valid argument. If you think it is a pretty good tactic for PvP in end-game gear, please explain why.

In other words, try to debunk the issue raised by OP.

I never played retail, but there was a discussion about this tactic in my guild, and people said this tactic becomes really good, when you have so much armor that 33% armor penalty doesnt even matter.

That only happened once you got the boken af rr100 sets which ror will not have additionally the devs said that they will address the rampant armor scaling that late game sets had; so that unlike live, phys dmg rdps won't fall off


So since their will be no absurdly defensive rr100 sets and no rampant armor scaling, all the more reason to address this tactic

My idea for the tactic would be to give the tank 2 viable specs (like healers can). Tank with guard ability or tankDPS without guard. This is why the damage increase would need to be high enough to allow the tDPS to compete with say dps DoKs or dps AMs.

Essentially in 6v6 with a suped up FO tactic a group could try and be viable with a setup such as:

2 tanks with guard, 1 tankDPS without or limited guard, 1 mDPS or RDPS + 2 healers.


I'd go this direction with this tactic because finding a balancing point where FO would be a viable replacement for other tank tactics while offering decent additional damage and a workable reduction in survivability could be very hard.

TenTonHammer wrote: So since their will be no absurdly defensive rr100 sets and no rampant armor scaling, all the more reason to address this tactic

What about pve?

megadeath wrote:

TenTonHammer wrote: So since their will be no absurdly defensive rr100 sets and no rampant armor scaling, all the more reason to address this tactic

What about pve?

Highest PvE set was Tyrant, which was equivalent to Warlord iirc. So no crazy stats on PvE sets.

megadeath wrote:

TenTonHammer wrote: So since their will be no absurdly defensive rr100 sets and no rampant armor scaling, all the more reason to address this tactic

What about pve?

What about it? There are no dungeons or raids in yet, and they won't be for some time. When they are available, we can discuss them then. Imo, we should focus discussion on the content that most players are doing, and will continue to do, pvp.