[Implementation Feedback] Morale Gain

[Luuca]

Just to be clear, did you just say that having 75% damage reduction for your whole group up 1/3 of the time, is fine because it doesnt kill people?

1. 10 seconds of 60 seconds is not 1/3 of the time.

You assume a lot.
You assume there in no justified use of champ challenge, Raze, R3 morales and that every chosen simply waits for R4 morale and never uses R2 100% block when their Guard target is being focused.

It's a situational morale and a waste to use if your group is not under extreme duress.

[Azarael]

We have played with rank 40 morales and morale pumping tactics for no more theen a couple months.

Yes. And strangely, the forum is not filled with people complaining about how the game is ruined because of standard morale gain. The only problem we have is that a few tactics which interface with Morale and were balanced around the old system are out of balance. Let me compare that to such topics as:

- Pounce
- Proc meta
- Flames of Fate / Ensnare
- Destroy Confidence

Pounce is a good example of what happens when there's actually a problem. Topic after topic after topic... yet very little talking about morale gain. Hmm.

1. 10 seconds of 60 seconds is not 1/3 of the time.

2 tanks @ DfV / YSMBD? = 33% uptime.

[bloodi]

1. 10 seconds of 60 seconds is not 1/3 of the time.

You assume a lot.
You assume there in no justified use of champ challenge, Raze, R3 morales and that every chosen simply waits for R4 morale and never uses R2 100% block when their Guard target is being focused.

It's a situational morale and a waste to use if your group is not under extreme duress.

Well, good thing you can have 2 tanks then and that by the grace of the gods, it turns out destruction meta tanks, Chosen and BO both have a morale pump ability and also turns out that all those great morales you mention can be used by them way before any order tank can do so because, oh, turns out the morale pump gives morale points which you can use for every other ability that is not immaculate defenses.

But keep trying to argue what you guys always do, claim that is because of bias and that the poor destruction is getting nerfed not because having every morale from a tank way before order can do is broken, is because they are after you.

Seriously, we couldnt give Sms any tool because of their damage, Bos having being able to pump m4 on cd? perfectly fine.

[Luuca]

1. 10 seconds of 60 seconds is not 1/3 of the time.

You assume a lot.
You assume there in no justified use of champ challenge, Raze, R3 morales and that every chosen simply waits for R4 morale and never uses R2 100% block when their Guard target is being focused.

It's a situational morale and a waste to use if your group is not under extreme duress.

Well, good thing you can have 2 tanks then and that by the grace of the gods, it turns out destruction meta tanks, Chosen and BO both have a morale pump ability and also turns out that all those great morales you mention can be used by them way before any order tank can do so because, oh, turns out the morale pump gives morale points which you can use for every other ability that is not immaculate defenses.

But keep trying to argue what you guys always do, claim that is because of bias and that the poor destruction is getting nerfed not because having every morale from a tank way before order can do is broken, is because they are after you.

Seriously, we couldnt give Sms any tool because of their damage, Bos having being able to pump m4 on cd? perfectly fine.

If you can't make an argument better than "it's not fair" please refrain from posting.

Az has stated the math and I can't argue with the numbers. As an active player of the Chosen class I can and will state that there are many tactics of the KotBS I wish I had and yet do not. There are Auras I wish I had, and do not. The simple fact is that Az has stated he's going to "adjust" the tactics. IMO this is what I have to live with. As a SnB tank having access to my morales by giving up a tactic slot was worth it to me. It's not like I get this for free. It is a tactic slot. We only have 4.

Either way, I'll deal with it as the devs see fit and hope they find some balance for us all.

[roadkillrobin]

We have played with rank 40 morales and morale pumping tactics for no more theen a couple months.

Are you saying that there has been no complaints about Order beeing able to stack crits from Dirty Tricks, Leading Shots, Ancestor's Fury and destro don't. Or that Orde healers basicly don't need to worry about AP at all while there been no complains from Shamans and Zealots???
The Obviusly the fix is to return the morale gain to it's orginal state. It helps everyone it reduce the effectivness of the tactics and give the Order realm better acess to morales. And if you feel that the morales are to strong you need to nerf the morales itself.

[arnagob]

Spoiler:

Just to be clear, did you just say that having 75% damage reduction for your whole group up 1/3 of the time, is fine because it doesnt kill people?

1. 10 seconds of 60 seconds is not 1/3 of the time.

You assume a lot.
You assume there in no justified use of champ challenge, Raze, R3 morales and that every chosen simply waits for R4 morale and never uses R2 100% block when their Guard target is being focused.

It's a situational morale and a waste to use if your group is not under extreme duress.

Are you really using m2 100% block as KOTBS ?

Read the forum rules - Penril

[bloodi]

If you can't make an argument better than "it's not fair" please refrain from posting.

One of us just went and called a developer biased and its trying to make this look as people complaining when there is no problem at all, while refusing to accept the arguments given to him. There was plenty i may add and they surely didnt boil down to "its not fair".

So if i were you, i wouldnt go around telling people to refrain from posting Luuca.

[Luuca]

If you can't make an argument better than "it's not fair" please refrain from posting.

One of us just went and called a developer biased and its trying to make this look as people complaining when there is no problem at all, while refusing to accept the arguments given to him. There was plenty i may add and they surely didnt boil down to "its not fair".

So if i were you, i wouldnt go around telling people to refrain from posting Luuca.

Again, please stay on topic. If you hadn't cherry picked my post you would have quoted:

Az has stated the math and I can't argue with the numbers. As an active player of the Chosen class I can and will state that there are many tactics of the KotBS I wish I had and yet do not. There are Auras I wish I had, and do not. The simple fact is that Az has stated he's going to "adjust" the tactics. IMO this is what I have to live with. As a SnB tank having access to my morales by giving up a tactic slot was worth it to me. It's not like I get this for free. It is a tactic slot. We only have 4.

Either way, I'll deal with it as the devs see fit and hope they find some balance for us all.

What part of that is refusing to accept the decisions Az stated? I am resigned to let them do what they think best and wait and see the results. I don't have to agree with the changes nor accept any arguments made; however, I do have to play the game provided.

[bloodi]

Spoiler:

Again, please stay on topic. If you hadn't cherry picked my post you would have quoted:

You are the one telling me to refrain from posting, i dont need to adress anything else in your post, again, dont tell people to stop posting when you write things like this:

I don't have to agree with the changes nor accept any arguments made

If you are here to just say your piece and refuse to see anyone else argument and then have the balls to tell people to stop posting and reduce their arguments to them saying "its not fair" i really dont know what you expect, its a discussion forum.

What part of that is refusing to accept the decisions Az stated?.

If you read what i said you would clearly see that the problem is not you accepting or not the decision, is you refusing to see the arguments and then having the balls to claim that a developer did those changes because he plays in the other faction, which you did here viewtopic.php?f=96&t=17649&start=10#p196932

So spare me the bullshit and dont tell me or others if they should post or not.

Dont turn this into a flame war - Penril

[Luuca]

So spare me the bullshit and dont tell me or others if they should post or not.

Please refrain from posting curse words at another player and again, please try to stay on topic. Your feelings for/about me aside, I am free to disagree with any argument placed before me. I do not have to accept the reasons for the change(s) I only have to accept the change(s) in game. As do you if you want to continue to play RoR. You have now posted 3 times off topic and directly at me with more salt each time. Please stay on topic and present your arguments as well as you can. IMO this discussion for me is over. Az has showed me the math and I understand it. He and his team will do what they think is best. Your points, and mine, are moot.