Saving Scenarios (the endangered species part of WAR)

[labotimy]

I do 100% agree with this. It still would be nice to earn whatever PvP gear set is available, by playing whatever form of PvP I decide to at that moment.

For the life of me I can't understand this logic. Sorry, but I can't. You don't get dwarf INF for fighting in Emp zone. Both are PvP that give seperate gear. By this logic, emblems AND medallions should drop from all player deaths, Merc and Anni boots and gloves should drop from all player deaths. That would actually make it harder to get a specific set, but let's ignore that for a moment.

SC pop's are almost non-stop on my knight whichever healer. DPS takes a little bit more time, but I fail to see how SCs are an "endangered species" by any stretch. People who want smaller scale battles will SC. Do they have to grind a bit to get BiS gear? Yes. How is that a bad thing? The "no incentive" argument is invalid. What is the incentive to play if you have achieved BiS gear and fully capped in a week because the drop rates made it super easy to farm? Oh right. We play cause we like the Fights...

My 2 cents.

You see this is what's called a strawman argument. I never said "make BiS gear super easy to get". The devs could literally double the time to get gear from SC's, and I wouldn't mind assuming I had an avenue of choice in regards to what gear set I would actually receive.

IMO when it comes to game design, giving players more choices rather then restrictions is almost always a better option. That is exactly why I used the Zealot/RP class as an example. Player wants to heal small scale combat with a healer Class, has no reasonable method to gear up due to restrictive game design. Player is forced to dedicate time outside of small scale PvP in order to be competitive, instead of earning it within the same play environment the player wishes to participate in.

I hope you can now understand "this logic".

[Dabbart]

Spoiler:

I do 100% agree with this. It still would be nice to earn whatever PvP gear set is available, by playing whatever form of PvP I decide to at that moment.

For the life of me I can't understand this logic. Sorry, but I can't. You don't get dwarf INF for fighting in Emp zone. Both are PvP that give seperate gear. By this logic, emblems AND medallions should drop from all player deaths, Merc and Anni boots and gloves should drop from all player deaths. That would actually make it harder to get a specific set, but let's ignore that for a moment.

SC pop's are almost non-stop on my knight whichever healer. DPS takes a little bit more time, but I fail to see how SCs are an "endangered species" by any stretch. People who want smaller scale battles will SC. Do they have to grind a bit to get BiS gear? Yes. How is that a bad thing? The "no incentive" argument is invalid. What is the incentive to play if you have achieved BiS gear and fully capped in a week because the drop rates made it super easy to farm? Oh right. We play cause we like the Fights...

My 2 cents.

You see this is what's called a strawman argument. I never said "make BiS gear super easy to get". The devs could literally double the time to get gear from SC's, and I wouldn't mind assuming I had an avenue of choice in regards to what gear set I would actually receive.

IMO when it comes to game design, giving players more choices rather then restrictions is almost always a better option. That is exactly why I used the Zealot/RP class as an example. Player wants to heal small scale combat with a healer Class, has no reasonable method to gear up due to restrictive game design. Player is forced to dedicate time outside of small scale PvP in order to be competitive, instead of earning it within the same play environment the player wishes to participate in.

I hope you can now understand "this logic".

My apologies. The first part of my statement was at you, 2nd was in general towards this thread, where the OP has even asked for gains to be increased in SCs..

And no, I still don't. That healer wants to play in small scale for fun. He wants decent gear to do so, he has to grind up that gear. PvP doesn't provide Pots or mats no? One has to grind to gain those correct? I think it's the fact that you can so easily lvl from 1-cap that people forget you are supposed to have to grind for things.

And lastly, there are Green RR gear merchants that you can buy armor/weap off for Gold. The gear stats/armor lines are very close to anni/merc, and there are normally 3 different sets you can choose from. So No. You do not have " no reasonable method to gear up due to restrictive game design." You are choosing to not grind up the BiS gear in order to participate in something you truly enjoy.

Do you understand the point here? You are supposed to have to do different things to get specific gear types. Are you also going to complain when Dungeons are released that you are being FORCED to participate in boring PvE for the awesome gear?

[Annaise16]

I no longer heal on my AM because it's a lot easier to get medallions, influence and renown by running solo as dps in rvr. This is summed up by my AM's participation at a keep defence just before I levelled out of tier 3, 40 medallions on my solo dps AM versus fewer than 10 medallions each for toons that stayed in the warbands. And I didn't have to go near the oil to achieve that.

[catholicism198]

Sorry but I see no point in queuing for SCs knowing that it will be pre-made (with vent) vs. PuG without healers- It's a waste of time. 2 renown points 0 Emblems in 14 minutes is an utter waste of time in what's already waste of time.
They're fun...but only when it's PuG vs. PuG.

[drmordread]

Sorry but I see no point in queuing for SCs knowing that it will be pre-made (with vent) vs. PuG without healers- It's a waste of time. 2 renown points 0 Emblems in 14 minutes is an utter waste of time in what's already waste of time.
They're fun...but only when it's PuG vs. PuG.

In all of my years of playing WAR, AoR and RoR, this happens maybe twice an hour and those SC's are over in less than 8 min since the OP side takes all objectives and the points just pile in. This leaves me with 44 minutes of fun SC time. So I actually would make pretty good RR and medallion count if SC's were given a little love.

[peterthepan3]

i agree with ot and dalgrimar:

even making medallions drop in scens at a reduced rate would go a long way. as others have said, rvr isn't for everyone and i personally find it very monotonous, dictated by the side with the largest numbers. i do respect, however, that the game is rvr-centric (for better or worse is subjective =p)

what should matter is PvP. besides, medallions dropping in scenarios should have no bearing on people who prefer RvR anyway and don't like scenarios so I don't get the hate. RvR will always bring more renown/medallions/cool inf rewards/purple bags anyway so that's a lot more than you get from scenarios already.

[th3gatekeeper]

1. Increase RR gain in sc's to 50%
2. Allow medallion and gear drops in SC's
3. Allow INF rewards again as it was in original WAR. (Dwarf SC's give Dwarf INF, Elf SC's give Elf INF, Emp SC's give Emp INF)

I know there are those who believe that only fighting in the RvR lakes is playing WAR. Well, many people are getting tired of the lakes. A viable alternative would be nice ....

1. Very bad idea : scens giving more renown then RvR will only result in super-meta-premade queuing everywhere and grinding renown against pug way too fast. NA has already not much RvR, doing this would transform the game into an instanced PvP game like WoW Battlegrounds.

Who said to make Scens give more than RvR. Currently in RvR if you get AAO up and kill ONE person, or heck, even just 1v1 someone in RvR and youll get 2x the renown of a SC win... That seems a little silly to me. Not to mention, get into a nice warband and farm the otherside for a while and youll rack up 100+ kills in no time netting you a few thousand RR if not 10k+... Versus an hour of SCs will get you what? 1.2k-1.5k? Its a joke...

While I agree, SCs are easy to farm, I farmed 1700 emblems and have 5/5 Merc and my 2h, and I never que anymore because there is zero point. I would LOVE a "gear converter" so I could convert my Merc gear + Medallions to Anni gear... I would love to see actual renown reward from doing SCs (atleast 2x the current rate, so the OP suggestion of 50% is the MINIMUM I would need to make me feel its worth while).

So far the RVR in this game is zerg vs zerg, or zerg vs Door... I think some people get caught in the illusion that they are re-living their "LIVE" days, but this isnt Live and there is a reason Live failed. I know RVR is temporary and will hopefully change, but that said I think the OP is right. Some people dont like the "RvR" as THE end game, for others they like SCs more and would prefer to do them, however you get such crap renown that its not even worth the 10 minutes to win...

Or heck, give a vendor that sells renown currency for X emblems... This way a guy who trades in 100 emblems can get like 10k renown or something... I mean there are many options here to make SCs worth while for guys who have the gear. But once you get it, chances are you wont Que for them again. You do what I do, log in, check for RvR, if there isnt a good going running, log out and go play another game. Lately its been I log in, do RvR for 30 minutes while we either play defense and farm people for a while, or on offense and get farmed for a while, and then logout for 2 days.

If SCs were given more reward, and an actual viable method of leveling renown, MANY more players would play it. Right now RvR isnt much fun, so it feels like there is not much to do.

[drmordread]

Dabart ..... green gear? Really? You think green gear is an option for a 40/40+ player? ..... SMH

[catholicism198]

Sorry but I see no point in queuing for SCs knowing that it will be pre-made (with vent) vs. PuG without healers- It's a waste of time. 2 renown points 0 Emblems in 14 minutes is an utter waste of time in what's already waste of time.
They're fun...but only when it's PuG vs. PuG.

In all of my years of playing WAR, AoR and RoR, this happens maybe twice an hour and those SC's are over in less than 8 min since the OP side takes all objectives and the points just pile in. This leaves me with 44 minutes of fun SC time. So I actually would make pretty good RR and medallion count if SC's were given a little love.

Destro has very- very few premades, so that's probably why you only come across two every hour. But when playing against Order it's premade after premade after premade- I'd get maybe two PuGs every hour- so I just don't bother with them. They're just not worth it.
Not because I get more renown from orvr- but because they just aren't fun.

[roadkillrobin]

Imo game has allready way to much focus on SCs. I like em as instant pvp for when nothing really is goin on. But since scenarios was taken out of the ORVR campain they been just a way to pass dead time. The new currency that was introduced to SC's for BiS weapons was imo not a good descision. People started to premade the **** out of sc's for the grind. The moast casual pvp in the game at that time. There were premades before that point aswell but this kinda got turned it up to 11. So the moast casual format wich people used to lvl up when soloing got infested with super hardcore 6man premades. And it got even worse once the cap was raised and new BiS items were added. The best feature was always when SC's were part of the campain. My sugestion is this. Have the Pre vs Pre scenarios effect the campain locks and let the winning team chose between 6 emblems or 2 Medalions. This will get more people to make 6mans and que for pre vs pre scenarios. And remove pres from casual ques.