6 man meta

[incredible]

how you can argue that 6 man meta isn't the obvious balance meta is beyond me. One need look no further than Caledor Woods. Since its introduction, hardly any other form of pvp takes place on this server and furt........

Uhh, I apologize, this just in. I am wrong.

[footpatrol2]

@tomato

You can actually mitigate 8 BW's in this game through HTL tactics and having your healers stack disrupt/dodge. A single or a few deaths don't really matter at the warband level in organized play. What you don't want is like 9 instant deaths at the same time.

You can't mitigate moral bombs. Hence why I've been so persistent on its importance. You also have to coordinate and organize a crap ton of people to due this. Which you make it sound easy. Its not easy to get 24/12 cats to due something together at the same time nearly on the same GCD. It is raid like PVE mechanics built into its PVP.

Since some of you now are seeing things from my perspective now. Feel free to re-visit my sig site (origins of balance) with this new perspective. A lot of it is rambled thoughts but there are utter and complete gems in there.

[incredible]

You can't mitigate moral bombs. Hence why I've been so persistent on its importance. You also have to coordinate and organize a crap ton of people to due this. Which you make it sound easy. Its not easy to get 24/12 cats to due something together at the same time nearly on the same GCD. It is raid like PVE mechanics built into its PVP.

It seems to me that this highly rewarding style of game play, 12 to 24 cats as you say, should be encouraged. Maybe even with more or better rewards. Encouraging people to run a warband will fix so many things. Someone who never played in one or just once or twice cant imagine.
It is also hell of a lot of fun.

9 insta deaths or not, coordinating morale bombs or not, It is not about failing it is about setting up a warband in the first place and get to know a whole new world. High and unique rewards could do that. Maybe gold rewards if we can somehow fight inflation. I dont really want to argue too much about the kind of rewards given just that encouraging setting up warbands should be a priority. More fun and more competition for everyone. I really dont see on how you could lose on that. Meeting nice people having decent fights, isnt that what a game should be about? Just 6-manning in a dead CW scenario is definitely not what a game should be about. imho

[tomato]

It will take more work to get this game balanced at the 6 man level then it would if it was (opinion--->) to be balanced at the 12 or 24 man level.

The number of different 6 man 2:2:2 setups on one side (only 3mdps/heals/tanks) is 6^3=216 different meele trains.
Yes, only 2:2:2 meele trains. Not counting 1:3:2 setups, rdps, only the 3 mdps classes.
So if you want to take every possible 6man meeletrain setup into account, you already have 216 of them.
For one realm.

Meele DoK is a viable Mdps aswell, so on destru we got 10*6*6=360 possible setups.
You see where this is going? You'd get way higher number of possible setups for 12 or even 24 men.

Those numbers will explode if you look at different 6vs6 situations. Even worse for 24vs24.

The point is, if you want to account all "wb synergies", as small they may be, it will be so much more complicated (actually impossible to do it right) than just doing it for 6mans.

[bloodi]

So it went from "6 man already has every possible synergy" to "its too hard to balance 24 mans, forget it".?

[tomato]

The point is, if you want to account all "wb synergies", as small they may be

Learn2read.

Edit: My math post was to correct this:

It will take more work to get this game balanced at the 6 man level then it would if it was (opinion--->) to be balanced at the 12 or 24 man level.

But I'm not expecting you to actually understand what I post. You proved already you're not capable of understanding.

[Gachimuchi]

utter and complete gems

[Gobtar]

The meta game is not directly created, it is the circumstances and events that formulate into observable concepts. The reason why the '6 man' meta is important because of how the game has incorporates parties, party synergies etc. Players gravitate towards the 6 man because it is self contained though can be modular as well. Warband balance can be addressed by balancing individual parties. The only time I have ever seen Warband compostion to be important was city, and even then it was addressed by building 4 parties each with a specific role in mind.

As a Tank I might use different armor sets and specs depending on the situation, but ultimately those changes will be how I effect the party dynamic, regardless of whether my 6 man is in a warband or not. Warbands operate as 4 separate parties, they are not a unique formation where group heals and guards and be mixed in, party abilities do not effect Warbands, very few things do. If this where the case then balancing Warbands might be indiviually important.

Know that when you are constructing a Warband you are addressing the needs of each party...if you are not, you are not optimizing your warband.

[bloodi]

Learn2read.

6vs6 balance includes every group synergy/setup possible. (and therefor almost every warband synergy)

The point is, if you want to account all "wb synergies", as small they may be it will be so much more complicated (actually impossible to do it right) than just doing it for 6mans.

I think i got it pretty well.

But I'm not expecting you to actually understand what I post. You proved already you're not capable of understanding.

I think that your problem is i see rather well the intent of your posts. I just dont really get your obsession with being catered to at all costs, if they dont design the game for you and just for you, somehow is a problem.

Warband balance can be addressed by balancing individual parties.

Well, newflashs, it cant be addressed that way.

The only time I have ever seen Warband compostion to be important was city, and even then it was addressed by building 4 parties each with a specific role in mind.

So you mean thhat for warband play people were building their party around a warband instead of 6 mans? I wonder what does that mean!

[footpatrol2]

@incredible

The reward is sense of community/morale bomb animations/epicness/guild or alliance tags. Its straight about bragging rights that you have enough organization/coordination in your community of players to pull something like this off.

An additional reward is easy access to city level gear.

Sidenote: I bet the intense damage coming from Sorc's/BW was there because it was thought that HTL tactic's would be the norm in competitive play. You'd only be able to sneak in a few hits from them.

You'd gear differently for ORvR then in sc's. Disrupt/Dodge becomes WAY more important in ORvR my opinion.