Return of Reckoning

Let me rephrase that. It might be enough to warrant taking a 2h IB over a SnB one. It does not matter how good a 2H tank is as long as they are subpar compared to SnB

Shadowgurke wrote:Let me rephrase that. It might be enough to warrant taking a 2h IB over a SnB one. It does not matter how good a 2H tank is as long as they are subpar compared to SnB

That is the point, 2h IB does have a place in certain setups over snb tanks.

Its specially great in "not so meta" setups where he can guard a grace wp or the other tank because you have ranged dd.

Gives you an on demand kd, good damage and decent control.

TenTonHammer wrote:

Shadowgurke wrote:I still think that most CC in this game was over nerfed. Mainly stagger and roots, but also KD to some degree

some of us prefer not to deal with 9s stagger again

It went from 9s to 3s. What's wrong with 5s?

Razid1987 wrote:

TenTonHammer wrote:

Shadowgurke wrote:I still think that most CC in this game was over nerfed. Mainly stagger and roots, but also KD to some degree

some of us prefer not to deal with 9s stagger again

It went from 9s to 3s. What's wrong with 5s?

I think they only want Engies and Magus to have the 5 sec staggers. To make them more desirable for groups i guess. Something was mentioned in an old thread about staggers.... let me see if i can find it.

The point was that Chosen and kobts didnt needd any buff whatsoever and they are the ones with aoe staggers.

If it was any other tank, it would be 5s like magus and engi.

but is it really sub par?

now i ask this because all i ever played from the get go was 2H ib on live so im a bit inexperienced on SnB vs IB

The main reason people dislike 2h tanks in parties is the lack of survive and the loss of some significant utility

IB still has access to a its buffs gets an on demand reliable cc vs a shorter CD but less reliable KD can still get outging HD and earth shatter, furthermore the class is naturally tanky and can become further tanky with runic shield and grumble n mutter or oathbound

furthermore you bring something extra to the table with 2h spec in free 10% crit that stacks with kotbs 20% crit

Shadowgurke wrote:

TenTonHammer wrote:

some of us prefer not to deal with 9s stagger again

I just think 9s Stagger is important to fight zergs, as is most CC that breaks on damage. I am not saying 9s stagger is totally balanced by giving it to KotBS and Chosen, but at the same time 5s roots that everyone can easily break and 3s (LOL) stagger that you might as well break and not notice the difference kinda lowers the skillcap

You dont need a 9s stagger to fight zergs, and its much, much more skill based with a 3s one instead of groups being carred by double knight/chosen hitting everyone for a 9s stagger every 30s. Seriously, there was nothing more brainless than that 9s duration, other than maybe when ruin and destruction had a stun on it, so I am just amazed people think it took "skill" to use a 9s stagger.

As per the topic, it was a good move, but i'm still an advocate of making mdps knockdowns 2s across the board, and tanks 3s. It doesnt make for good coutnerplay when you can be kd'd by a dps and lose 90% of your hp before you get up.

but then cant your team switch gaurd and challange the ally who is being gone on?

TenTonHammer wrote:but is it really sub par?


The main reason people dislike 2h tanks in parties is the lack of survive and the loss of some significant utility

IB still has access to a its buffs gets an on demand reliable cc vs a shorter CD but less reliable KD can still get outging HD and earth shatter, furthermore the class is naturally tanky and can become further tanky with runic shield and grumble n mutter or oathbound

furthermore you bring something extra to the table with 2h spec in free 10% crit that stacks with kotbs 20% crit

If you are guarding a target, your "less reliable KD" is suddenly up almost 100% while having a shorter KD. So the only upside you have is more damage of 2H, since the 10% crit is also available for SnB IB. How much of that advantage is lost because you have to spec/build more tanky to survive?

A class being good in "not so meta" groups is the definition of sub par

You dont need a 9s stagger to fight zergs, and its much, much more skill based with a 3s one instead of groups being carred by double knight/chosen hitting everyone for a 9s stagger every 30s. Seriously, there was nothing more brainless than that 9s duration, other than maybe when ruin and destruction had a stun on it, so I am just amazed people think it took "skill" to use a 9s stagger.

I did not advocate to bring back 9s stagger on 30s CD. But saying you don't need a 9s stagger to fight zergs is completely irrelevant. It helps enormously and rewards not breaking CC while 3s only rewards timing, while not breaking CC becomes irrelevant. 30s CD is also ridiculous for a 9s stagger, that is out of the question. But hitting 4 people with a 3s stagger is not skill, it just means that the opposition is sleeping

Shadowgurke wrote:A class being good in "not so meta" groups is the definition of sub par

No its not.

When melee is 100 and ranged is 80, having a tank that gives you 60 isntead of 40, makes up for the loss of damage while the extra survivability is not needed because they are ranged.

The numbers are entirely made up, just to show a point.

2h ib losses defenses for damage, if you ddont need the defenses, there is nothing subpar about it.

Its not so meta because meta groups are melee trains and unless you are stomping, you would rather get a shield and let the slayers go to town, no need for your damage.