Return of Reckoning

I can vouch for both Brood War and SC2 balance. Blizz StarCraft knows their s***.

As far as I'm aware, the balance there were based just as much on statistics, as feedback from pro players, though. Just saying...

As it should be. One of my biggest hates is people coming to the forum and saying X is fine, yet the number of decent people you see in game actually using X can be counted on the fingers of one foot.

This is a sample post from the KOTBS thread:

"Exactly. A tank, unless he's a potato, has much more things to do than sticking to 1 gobbo trying to lockdown him by removing 3 enchantments in 5 sec."

I removed the name. How can people who say these things be allowed to post on balance forums?

Because people like you exist to explain why they're talking crap, and people like us exist to make sure that they can't just continue to post the same thing after you've disproved it. This is the foundation of debate.

Ninepaces wrote:what are the flaws of my suggestion?

Off the top of my head...

1. How would we find the best players in each class?
2. How do you guarantee that their skill is not a result of synergy with their team?
3. How do we guarantee that the people best in class X know anything about the game outside of that class?
4. How do we guarantee that the best player of a class has the creativity to offer the best solution?
5. How do we guarantee that the best solution offered by the best players won't alienate the rest of the server once revealed?

If you want to point to how Blizzard handles Starcraft 2, then I have to ask, does Starcraft 2 require a team to have a balanced distribution of Terran, Zerg and Protoss players to win? Do Terrans have abilities that only buff their Protoss allies, or only debuff their Zerg opponents? Do the Protoss have three different specialization paths, and a further degree of specialization that is shared by the Zerg and Terrans too?

We chose the approach of having an open, transparent, and democratic discussion for a good reason. Several good reasons. We are well aware of the flaws in our approach, and we are going to attempt to mitigate those as much as possible with strict moderation and bans for people who cannot follow the proscribed rules.

it is easy. The ppl that take the final decision can just ignore the stupid and irreverent posts.

I have a question regarding the new section, though:

Are you gonna show the Balance Section as seperated, or make it stand out in anyway in the "Recent Topics"? I'm only asking because I think you would get a lot of people posting, unaware they were actually posting in a section with specific rules, if you don't do that.

I apologize if this have been mentioned. I must have missed it then.

Azarael wrote:Because people like you exist to explain why they're talking crap, and people like us exist to make sure that they can't just continue to post the same thing after you've disproved it. This is the foundation of debate.

Or just circumvent the whole thing and get right to the point!!!

Genisaurus wrote: Off the top of my head...

1. How would we find the best players in each class?
2. How do you guarantee that their skill is not a result of synergy with their team?
3. How do we guarantee that the people best in class X know anything about the game outside of that class?
4. How do we guarantee that the best player of a class has the creativity to offer the best solution?
5. How do we guarantee that the best solution offered by the best players won't alienate the rest of the server once revealed?

1. we know who they are already, more or less.
2. synergy is a result of skill, not the other way round. moot point.
3. i never said best in class x, i said best people, period. people who know most/all of the classes very well.
4. I don't believe that 5-6 people who know what they're talking about won't know what the fixes are.
5. the server already deals with BW m2 spam... nothing can be worse, especially with the devs having the final word on changes.

Ninepaces wrote: 4. I don't believe that 5-6 people who know what they're talking about won't know what the fixes are.

You might want at least 12 skilled people so things can be tested in grp combat.
Those have to get along with each other well, maybe the main difficulty.

anyways you guys got this... you are some of the best devs I've ever encountered and I was hoping to spare you the pain of dealing with that forum.