Self Punts on RoR vs Live

[porkstar]

Actually while I think about it...

..Is there a strong argument against giving WH/WE their self-punts at level 12, too?

Engies and SH aren't looking forward to we and wh self punting off the pets as a gap closer! triple pots needed!

[mursie]

If the implementation of DA and AE is not like it was on live, then those abilities will be considerably nerfed. The ability to manipulate direction, mid cast, on these abilities was the reason they were extremely potent. This action could negate punts and could allow for offensive use as well.

With that said, the current implementation may still be viable - it will just take awhile for users to get acclimated to the new rules. Where most were setting up direction mid cast, now the direction must be pre-meditated and setup prior to actually using the ability. Will have to wait and see.

[Thorondir]

I have no problems on my SW to properly aim where i want to fly. The animation goes in a big braod swing - in which you can adjust your camera per mouse - and then get get kicked depending on where you're looking at. Dont know how anyone can have an issue here?

Except that is not how it is working on RoR. Did you have an SW on live? The difference in the ability between the two implementations is quite noticeable.

I will see if I can get a video showing how the camera pan has no effect on your ultimate landing point.

Maybe this is just a NA lag issue and it is operating differently for some people.

[Thorondir]

I'd love to chime in but yanno, my beloved Agile Escape got improved and handed to bloody SW/SH at level TWELVE, and I can't get mine back unti T4 *cries*.

Makes my eye twitch. I think I'd actually feel better knowing it's practically useless now .

I posted this mainly with the WE/WH in mind for eventual implementation. Reduced control on a SW self punt kinda sucks but it is not critical. Whirling pin still gets the job done, even if positioning isn't ideal.

This is going to hit the WE/WH harder when you can't negate a punt and stick on your target. They are already the only melee dps class without a charge. It will probably lower the skill cap on those classes and make it harder for them in a T4 melee train.

I would think you would be very concerned about that as a WE/WH player.

[Luranni]

I'd love to chime in but yanno, my beloved Agile Escape got improved and handed to bloody SW/SH at level TWELVE, and I can't get mine back unti T4 *cries*.

Makes my eye twitch. I think I'd actually feel better knowing it's practically useless now .

I posted this mainly with the WE/WH in mind for eventual implementation. Reduced control on a SW self punt kinda sucks but it is not critical. Whirling pin still gets the job done, even if positioning isn't ideal.

This is going to hit the WE/WH harder when you can't negate a punt and stick on your target. They are already the only melee dps class without a charge. It will probably lower the skill cap on those classes and make it harder for them in a T4 melee train.

I would think you would be very concerned about that as a WE/WH player.

I never used the post-cast bug that I'm aware of, I was a keyboard turner/triple deck piano player on live .

I was being cheeky anyway.

[Genisaurus]

I'd love to chime in but yanno, my beloved Agile Escape got improved and handed to bloody SW/SH at level TWELVE, and I can't get mine back unti T4 *cries*.

Makes my eye twitch. I think I'd actually feel better knowing it's practically useless now .

I posted this mainly with the WE/WH in mind for eventual implementation. Reduced control on a SW self punt kinda sucks but it is not critical. Whirling pin still gets the job done, even if positioning isn't ideal.

This is going to hit the WE/WH harder when you can't negate a punt and stick on your target. They are already the only melee dps class without a charge. It will probably lower the skill cap on those classes and make it harder for them in a T4 melee train.

I would think you would be very concerned about that as a WE/WH player.

While I understand that the implementation of these abilities allowed them to be used in certain ways, I would argue that those uses were not intended, and should not be expected to be kept as-is in the long run. In all cases, I would say the self-punt is used to disengage from the enemy - allowing a SQ/SW to continue kiting, or a WE/WH to escape a fight they are losing and perhaps re-stealth - as the only MDPS with light armor, it's important that they have more ability to pick and choose their fights, even after starting them.

The fact that you could use a self-punt in midair, while moving away from your enemy, to re-engage them makes zero sense. It's the same deal with White Lions using pounce to recover from a knockback.

Granted, we do have an obligation to repair things to how they worked in live before we make balance changes. This was used in the past as an argument to re-instate the WL mid-air pounce after it was "fixed." That being said, I would expect these... idiosyncrasies to be some of the first in line once balance discussions are opened.

[mursie]

While I understand that the implementation of these abilities allowed them to be used in certain ways, I would argue that those uses were not intended. The fact that you could use a self-punt in midair, while moving away from your enemy, to re-engage them makes zero sense. It's the same deal with White Lions using pounce to recover from a knockback.

I find this unfortunate. While the point is moot at the moment, I am curious why you believe abilities like pounce, DA, and AE were left in an error state on live. They operated in that fashion for years. At some point, one has to consider that it was infact not an error, but rather an intentional effect of the ability left in place by the devs of live.

[Thorondir]

I'd love to chime in but yanno, my beloved Agile Escape got improved and handed to bloody SW/SH at level TWELVE, and I can't get mine back unti T4 *cries*.

Makes my eye twitch. I think I'd actually feel better knowing it's practically useless now .

I posted this mainly with the WE/WH in mind for eventual implementation. Reduced control on a SW self punt kinda sucks but it is not critical. Whirling pin still gets the job done, even if positioning isn't ideal.

This is going to hit the WE/WH harder when you can't negate a punt and stick on your target. They are already the only melee dps class without a charge. It will probably lower the skill cap on those classes and make it harder for them in a T4 melee train.

I would think you would be very concerned about that as a WE/WH player.

While I understand that the implementation of these abilities allowed them to be used in certain ways, I would argue that those uses were not intended, and should not be expected to be kept as-is in the long run. In all cases, I would say the self-punt is used to disengage from the enemy - allowing a SQ/SW to continue kiting, or a WE/WH to escape a fight they are losing and perhaps re-stealth - as the only MDPS with light armor, it's important that they have more ability to pick and choose their fights, even after starting them.

The fact that you could use a self-punt in midair, while moving away from your enemy, to re-engage them makes zero sense. It's the same deal with White Lions using pounce to recover from a knockback.

Granted, we do have an obligation to repair things to how they worked in live before we make balance changes. This was used in the past as an argument to re-instate the WL mid-air pounce after it was "fixed." That being said, I would expect these... idiosyncrasies to be some of the first in line once balance discussions are opened.

Fair enough. I agree that the function of the self punts on live was probably not an intended feature. This is why I was asking if it was an intentional "bug fix" or balance change because I could understand how this could be.

Azarael also made it pretty clear that there may be an unknown method of implementation in play. That makes the implementation discussion somewhat pointless in any event.

[Luranni]

Fair enough. I agree that the function of the self punts on live was probably not an intended feature. This is why I was asking if it was an intentional "bug fix" or balance change because I could understand how this could be.

Azarael also made it pretty clear that there may be an unknown method of implementation in play. That makes the implementation discussion somewhat pointless in any event.

You know, if DA/AE were given at level 12 as well, we could test this! *nudge nudge nudge*

[porkstar]

Not to pile on, but, does anyone else think pounce distance is a lot further than it was on live? It use to take a WL 2 pounces to get to me typically with my normal positioning on my sorc. In RoR I feel like they are all getting to me in 1 jump. Maybe I just need to get good.

I've found that all ranges in RoR come with a +/- 25-30ft margin of error. To you, the WL is 90ft away but to the Wl you are a juicy 65ft away. My SH and Engie get melee'd at 25 or more ft very frequently.