Return of Reckoning

Azarael wrote:For keys, what I do is:

QERTFGXCVBN = 11 keys
12345 + F1234 = 9 keys
One of my side mouse buttons is redirected to Control, so Control + all of the above = 40 keys.

I will never understand why NB is justified for anything.

This probably sounds crazy to some people but it's really not that hard. Bind Ctrl and Alt to your mouse and it's only limited by how well you can remember your keybinds in the moment.

Vigfuss wrote:

Azarael wrote:For keys, what I do is:

QERTFGXCVBN = 11 keys
12345 + F1234 = 9 keys
One of my side mouse buttons is redirected to Control, so Control + all of the above = 40 keys.

I will never understand why NB is justified for anything.

This probably sounds crazy to some people but it's really not that hard. Bind Ctrl and Alt to your mouse and it's only limited by how well you can remember your keybinds in the moment.

I can only share my own perspective, but I personally dislike having SO many buttons to hit at different times. I know to some people that is "skill level" and I wont deny that memorization of buttons is a big deal. It takes time and practice to use effectively but when I was looking at playing WAR it was a BIG turn off to me to have SO many buttons.

Coming from a game called Neverwiner Online, they cut everything down to 3 encounters (all on longer 5-10 sec CDs) and then 2 at wills (spammable) and then 2 "dailies" (equivalent of our Morales) and I can tell you there was a decent amount of skill required. Not in memorization of buttons but in positioning, counter play etc.

I personally prefer having less buttons, maybe that few is too extreme as I often felt they could do more, but on SOME classes (like my Mara) I feel I have too many abilities and need nine fingers to really hit them all when needed.

Other classes like my BW, you really only need like 4-6 buttons ever...

The times that I have used Nerfed Buttons are things like my SM, where I have moves in different stances take the place of other moves... Like Improved Stance abilities overlayer basic stance stuff when I switch.

I know a friend who plays a Slayer that almost quit the game until he found NB and said it made his life WAY easier and made the game more fun again.

I think some will disagree with me and thats fine, but I think WAR as slightly too many buttons to press and you lose immersion in the game and feel "disconnected" because of this.

Thinking back to my Halo days, or even in WoW or Neverwinter or Diablo... I felt a "one-ness" or connection through the console/PC into the game and whatever I thought, I would do.

In WAR I have SO many abilities that sometimes I have to pull myself out, to remember where X move is on my bars or pull myself out of the experience to "check" a stance, or a move, or what not. I am a newish player, but have put a TON of time into the game.

I guess what I am saying is people need to get off their high horse if people use NB or not - who cares! It doesnt ruin your game at all and you can play with 25 buttons to click. For SOME of us, being forced to use 25 buttons DOES ruin the game. I hardly even use NB but the few things that I do use it for, it would ruin the class if I was forced to play without it.

In WoW I had macros that we could build to do things more effectively. NB is essentially just that. A way for a person to customize their controls so they can THINK and then do it immediately rather than having to stumble around for the key bind only to mis press one due to a finger slip trying to hit "T" but accidentally hit "G" instead.

Wait, you played WoW and you're complaining about having too many abilities HERE? Did you play a Rogue or something? Because most classes in WoW (Before MoP) had a ****-ton of abilities. Shamans, which is what I have "mained" for +10 years now, had 21 totems in WotLK. 21. Totems. That's excluding standard abilities like Shocks, Ghost Wolf, Lightning and Lava spells, Hex, Shields, and talent-abilities.
I probably had something like 40-50 abilities in that entire expansion. And you're complaining about WAR? Really!?

Also, I'd argue that NB does the exact opposite than making you think - It takes away thought, because it's simply not required for you to think about anything, in combat, while using NB. All the decisions have already been made when you made the sequence before hand. Just spam the **** out of that "macro" and do maximum possible DPS/healing/threat/mitigation/whatever you set it up for. You have all of your attention to focus on movement, your surroundings, your enemies, allies, cooldowns, whatever. The whole using abilities? It's almost as good as automated.

Edit: And yup - Just checked. I had 47 abilities, and possibly even more. I might have missed some:

Ya i have to agree wow had way more abilities and you needed to make a ton of macros too. Basically you had to have some abilities on your bars multiple times like in arena on my sham i had to have a macro to cast hex on arena target 1 2 and 3.

F was hex alt+f was hex arena 1ctrl+f was arena 2 and shift+f arena 3.

As far as keybinding goes wow needed way way more if you wanted to play at a higher level.

such hate to addons like nerfed buttons . u cant even put all abilities in 1 button, because they dont work maby first 3, because cooldawn is 5 sec and 10 sec. ranged clases no need for nerfed buttons byt for melle is good. disarm/knockdown is good because to react in 3 sec to spam tham in combat madness with my lagging pc bunny jumping is good. byt there is shadow u dont se cooldawns of abilities what u puted into nerfed buttons. well if ppl whant real challenge than dont use any addons, even buffhead is somekinda cheating or ges addon for tank( because he tell to who he put guard)

normanis wrote:such hate to addons like nerfed buttons . u cant even put all abilities in 1 button, because they dont work maby first 3, because cooldawn is 5 sec and 10 sec. ranged clases no need for nerfed buttons byt for melle is good. disarm/knockdown is good because to react in 3 sec to spam tham in combat madness with my lagging pc bunny jumping is good. byt there is shadow u dont se cooldawns of abilities what u puted into nerfed buttons. well if ppl whant real challenge than dont use any addons, even buffhead is somekinda cheating or ges addon for tank( because he tell to who he put guard)

No. Not all - "Only" 90% of all abilities. And separate cooldowns doesn't mean it won't work, and even if it did, you could just add artificial cooldowns to even them out. The fact of the matter is that no classes need NB. For the vast majority of the community, using NB is an advantage, because most of the community is casual.

And no, having addons that give information is no where near as powerful as having an addon essentially play the game for you. The player still have to process that information and know what to do with it, and even react. NB requires none of that - Just keep spamming that one button and you're all good. The only thing that NB "requires" is that you have the intellect to understand an abilty's tooltip description, and then have the "brainpower" to put them in a good sequence. That's it.
What NB effectively does, is reducing all of your entire rotation, to the spam of a single botton. I've said it once and I'll say it again: "It removes thought, decision making, skill, reaction time, and knowledge from combat. I don't even have to know what ANY buff or debuff does: NB fixes it all, instantly. Just spam the **** out of one button and you're automatically maximized in DPS/HPS/Mitigation/buffing/debuffing/cleansing etc etc."

In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen

When I read this thread I imagined countless perfectly playing players who kill everything thanks to a thriving black market for NB condition chains.

And then I logged in and noticed: Most players are pretty bad and some players are even worse than me.

This leads me to the conclusion that the impact of NB on the gameplay in general in greatly exaggerated in this thread.

Cimba wrote:When I read this thread I imagined countless perfectly playing players who kill everything thanks to a thriving black market for NB condition chains.

And then I logged in and noticed: Most players are pretty bad and some players are even worse than me.

This leads me to the conclusion that the impact of NB on the gameplay in general in greatly exaggerated in this thread.

A valid point, but I'm just tired of people defending it, saying it's doesn't make much difference or that other addons are just as bad. NB is probably not very popular, but that doesn't mean it's not powerful. I don't expect the average player to use it, but I would dislike it, if they did, and that is why I'm objecting to notion that it's alright to use it.

Razid1987 wrote:

Cimba wrote:When I read this thread I imagined countless perfectly playing players who kill everything thanks to a thriving black market for NB condition chains.

And then I logged in and noticed: Most players are pretty bad and some players are even worse than me.

This leads me to the conclusion that the impact of NB on the gameplay in general in greatly exaggerated in this thread.

A valid point, but I'm just tired of people defending it, saying it's doesn't make much difference or that other addons are just as bad. NB is probably not very popular, but that doesn't mean it's not powerful. I don't expect the average player to use it, but I would dislike it, if they did, and that is why I'm objecting to notion that it's alright to use it.

Cimba is spot on, it just seems to me its another "i lost they must be using NB", same situation when ppl cry xrealmers caused them to lose.

Razid the majority of players who use NB use it to save key space, sure there are some ppl who set conditions so they are not using a kd or punt on immune targets, using disarm on a wh when u parry, using health pots when on low health but the majority of the time they hinder you rather then actually benefit you.
I would be totally fine with NB being removed if there was another addon that let me put multiple skills on 1 key, i dont need the condition check or anything else.

Again i suggest for some ppl to try it, set a string with conditions and see if it magically makes you an amazing player.