Return of Reckoning

Zaxxond wrote:I but it is also fair to say that the skill level of the party you run with really determines how punishing the mechanic is.

thrown a heal onto a dps isnt anymore skill intensive that any other skill that makes up the bare minimum of party play

I'd like to see something along the lines of backlash applying an AOE DoT that reduces healing effects by some amount and that can stack cumulatively with each backlash.

Hi
I do like the idea of mis-cast chance related to increased dark magic/combustion .its inline with only the player itself affected but much more annoying than a self silence or AP cost mechanism and will make good players mad that they got affected.
Good players will avoid this happening as it is bad for rotation and bad will probably not notice so much they missed their cast while using their face to control keys.
This also has limited impact on solo players and removes the dependency on pet healer .

Acidic wrote:Hi
I do like the idea of mis-cast chance related to increased dark magic/combustion .its inline with only the player itself affected but much more annoying than a self silence or AP cost mechanism and will make good players mad that they got affected.
Good players will avoid this happening as it is bad for rotation and bad will probably not notice so much they missed their cast while using their face to control keys.
This also has limited impact on solo players and removes the dependency on pet healer .

One major downside I can see to this is that it doesn't really offer any 'management' of the resource. Sure, you might start mis-casting a ton with 100 DM/Combust but the alternative is to sit at really low levels and do a pittance of damage. It's not going to feel cool or interesting to sometimes blow someone up and other times your character fumbles like an idiot for no real fault of your own. This would also be extremely punishing with how long the cast times are - spending three seconds on a spell only for it to be disrupted is painful enough as it is.

Penril wrote:Give me a Sorc/BW mechanic that makes them not stay at 100 all the time. Or, at least, makes it very dangerous to stay at 100 all the time.

You have 2 weeks to post one (or to explain why this is not necessary).

Most of the comments are about how to punish the sorc/bw when they are at max combustion/dark power.
IMO there's no need to punish the mechanic even more. Right now you can play with your sorc/bw:
1. in solo
2. in Pug
3. In premade group/wb

Any changes with healdebuff, woundsdebuff, increased backlash, another type of self dmg, armor debuff, toughness debuff, increased incoming crit chance (or crit dmg) will ruin the first two gameplay mode, so most of the players will disappear insantly. You (we) cannot afford that. The first two modes are already very hard, and no one should balance a class only for group play.

If you don't want to allow sorc/bws to sit on 100 dark magic/combustion than make some spender abilites more attractive, because right now, only few of them worth it to use.

For example: Dhar wind/Meltdown: 1 sec cast, expel all dm/comb and do some undefendable dmg, 5 sec CD
You can change to: instant cast, expel all dm/comb and increase your movement speed by 4%-16% for 5 sec (4% for 0-24 dm, 8% for 25-49, 12% for 50-74, 16% for 75-100), 30 sec cd.

Or: Burnout/Reckless Gathering: instant cast, 40 dm/comb +160 ap, 20 sec CD.
You can change it to: insant cast, 100 dm/comb all of your abilites cost 50% less ap for 10 sec, 30 sec CD.

Or:
Shield of aqshy: insant cast - 20 ap cost, +990 armor, -50% chance setback for 10 sec 30 sec cd.
Change it to: instant cast, cost 25 comb -5% chance to crit, -10% incoming armor penetration for 10 sec, 30 sec cd.

Shroud of darkness: instant cast cost 25 ap, +378 all resist for 20 sec, 1 min CD.
Change it to: instant cast, cot 25 ap, reduces incoming non physical dmg by 25% for 20 sec, 1 min cd.

I feel like I need to say this again; we are not looking forward to nerfing these classes.

I play a Sorc. Mostly solo and in 6-man groups. I know that feeling when soloing and you are at like 40, 30, 20% health and no one is throwing you a HoT. You drink a heal pot and continue DPSing, and still no one throws you a HoT. You even consider getting Absorb Vitality (even though it gimsp your spec) and No. One. Throws. You. A. HoT.

Balance is not discussed for solo/pug play, but I am fully aware that just bigger backlash damage would pretty much only affect solo/pug players, and therefore is something at least I (can't talk for Torque and the other devs though) won't even consider.

I would prefer simply changing the values of the bonuses/backlash so you get the best ones in, i don't know, 71-90 range (possible even better than the current ones at 100) while increasing the backlash damage/chance considerably for the 91-100 range. Maybe we could even increase the crit chance/damage for everything under 70 as well.

How would it work? Well, you start at 0, and up to 70 you will be doing slightly more damage than you currently do. At 71, you do more damage/have more chance to crit than you currently do at 100. But if you get past 90, suddenly your crit/chance to crit drops back to 1-10 values, AND your backlash proc chance goes up by a lot. However, all it takes is one Surging Pain to go back to 70-90 range and keep the best bonuses.

Would this nerf the class? Maybe... Even though your bonuses would be better at 70 than they currently are at 100, some might say this could break up your rotation. Then again, maybe new rotations (which include Surging Pain) would appear. Of course, all these ranges/crit chance/crit damage/backlash chance should be adjusted accordingly after several tests.

This is only my proposal as a player and has no more weight than any of your proposals. But I felt i needed to post it to, once again, make it perfectly clear: WE ARE NOT LOOKING TO NERF THESE CLASSES.

I don't know if someone already stated this, but I'm going to give my suggestion (I'm not a BW expert, but i have an alt at 40).

I believe that the "ricochet" concept is what suits them better (even lorewise i think), but a change is indeed needed.
Now you don't bother about the damage because the spell that you use is going to be effective as well, so you are still dealing damage and doing your part, but what if you don't cast the spell instead?

What I propose is to change the straight damage tied with the mechanic's resources, and to introduce a "miscast" chance, where the spell isn't cast and it applies to the caster himself, with a proper % modifier tied to the current combustion. In this manner you can't sit at 100 because if you miscast some part of your rotation on yourself is totally devastating and not worth. This will be a huge nerf, I know, however if you grant these two classes a straight buff at low mechanic points, and a huge one at full potential, it could be worth it.

In addition, some abilities that "dump or discharge" combustion are necessary to keep a balanced way. (more than meltdown and burnout) or maybe change these two.

But let me make an example, and don't mind the numbers:
-from 0 to 50 ponts you have no miscast chance at all. Then each X point you increase your miscast chance untill 35% at 100. This increase should be exponential, not linear, in such a way to punish the 100 combustion sitting only.
-the same pattern must be applied for the buffs. You get a linear and modest buff untill 50, then an exponential one untill 100 where you get an huge crit chance and also a dmg boost (or something like this).

Let me explain the miscast part:
If you miscast a spell, it's symply applied to you, if it's a dot you will dot yourself---> your offensive stat will count against your defensive ones, and the damage should be scaled in proportion of your combustion level (like 100% dmg at full points and 50% at 50).
If it's an aoe spell, the aoe effect will be ignored, only the ST aspect will be considered.

Finally I will give a spell like Shield of Ashquy like 80% (or a high %) of miscast reduction, in such a way to have a free moment of rampage at full potential, however, if used incorrectly it will lead to certain doom.
-This will still be viable in solo-pug enviroment, where you can stay at a safe zone of 50ish points (BUT you have to manage this) with low risk and modest performance, and some 10s of rampage where you can be effective. And some will argue that this could be op, but if done properly it wouldn't, because 10s aren't much (considering the cast time and the HTL buffs to disrupts) and you have to build your combustion, so you need to choose: Do I use this early during the combustion building or do I use it at full throttle? Each decision has it's pros and cons (less dmg for the first but more safety, and more dmg but more risk for the latter).
-Also this treats the bombing/AOE aspect, where under focus you will not be able anymore to sit at 100, except if you have a coordinated heal focus, and this will lead to coordination and bear in minnd that if you are focus healed it means that others are not.

I'd like to pass only the concept, while the tuning will be more complicated, so don't focus on the nubers pls.
Sorry for the wall of text

I´ve followed this topic with half an eye and just wanted to add that while the mechanic is way too rewarding for no real risk I will flat out refuse any change that does not fit with the lore, so any solution to this issue must have some solid ground in lore as well (so random negative effects that dont fit the lore will be discarded in my eyes).

(This not only for immersions sake but also to not fiddle too much with the IP)

I have nothing else to add to the discussion, and I am sure Torque will make a good decision in the end

Sorry if mentioned before, 20pages just scanned. But why not tie the mechanic to defenses similar to slayer/choppa? Ie, lower resistances, toughness and maybe avoidance the higher combustion you have? Another idea possibly in conjunction, would be to add a damage proc to all attacks received when at the highest mechanic lvls. Edit: this would be the most lore friendly. As you build up your magical might, anything that damages you or draws blood releases some of that energy.

Another “balancing” change would be to limit mechanic production to spells that actually damage a target. So you can’t just spam Targetless AoE to sit at full mechanic before the fight even starts...

A third option, would be to have non instant spells that Critically hit(BW/Sorc casting upon an enemy) directly drain a portion of your mechanic. This would require a **** load of balancing... but again, lore friendly for Overcasting your spells, using up the power you had saved...

Penril wrote:I feel like I need to say this again; we are not looking forward to nerfing these classes.

How would it work? Well, you start at 0, and up to 70 you will be doing slightly more damage than you currently do. At 71, you do more damage/have more chance to crit than you currently do at 100. But if you get past 90, suddenly your crit/chance to crit drops back to 1-10 values, AND your backlash proc chance goes up by a lot. However, all it takes is one Surging Pain to go back to 70-90 range and keep the best bonuses.

Interesting Penril. I can see how this would work really well actually. I think someone else posted a similar thing a few pages back.

My 2 cents to this idea would be to make it slightly more management than this by adjusting (if possible) the tiers to some thing like:
1-20
21-40
41-60
61-80
81-100

And then making 81+ have significant drawbacks. So the key is to try and stay in the 41-80 range.

So potentially something like this for bonuses/backlash.
1-20: 8% Crit and 25% more crit damage, 0% backlash chance
21-40: 16% crit and 50% more crit damage, 0% backlash chance
41-60: 24% crit and 75% more crit damage, 0% backlash chance
61-80: 35% crit and 100% more crit damage, 0%-5% backlash chance
81-100: 35% crit and 100% crit damage, 100% backlash chance?

Something like this? So the lower levels are buffed slightly, more damage, zero backlash. The key is to be in the 61-80 range which gives the MOST benefits with little to no backlash. Once you hit 81+ you keep your benefits, but are hurting yourself.

Maybe the #s need to be tweaked and maybe its better to keep it 91+ rather than 81+ due to lack of spenders, or maybe you can adjust Meltdown to spend HALF your combustion rather than 100%... Or maybe it spends a fixed amount like 50 or something instead.

Or the other way you could go would be to make 31-70 be the "max benefit with no downside" and as you ignore the mechanic, and it builds past 71-90 the backlash/penalty builds and if you let it go past 91+ then the penalty hurts VERY badly. So it forces you to spend mechanic. It might be too easy to sit in the 31-70 range.

Overall I do like this quite a bit though.