Patch Notes 31/1/2017

[Pumatouch]

Firstly, get rid of the definition "Friendly Fire", replace it with "Soft Cover".

Some Engi stuff related to patch, freshly tested:
A Turret or Keg does not count as a Friendly Target for Soft Cover purposes. Bonus info: Keg heals a group of 6 Engis + their 6 turrets as well, total heal count of 12. The "Friendly Status" of Turrets and Keg is still debatable, but it does not provide any Soft Cover.

Several Engi abilities might be affected; these include Static Discharge, Blunderbuss Blast, Lightning Rod, Napalm, Land Mine, and Self-Destruct:
-Static Discharge and Blunderbuss Blast are both affected by Friendly Targets in their areas. Soft Cover applies.
-Lightning Rod is also affected by Friendly Targets. However, if the Friendly Targets all move away from the Rod, each subsequent dmg tick will increase, reflecting the new lack of Soft Cover; Lightning Rod dmg output is hence dynamic.
-Napalm is not affected; it is not direct dmg per se, but a sort of Aura Dot that one steps into or out of.
-Land Mine is not affected.
-Self-Destruct is affected. Soft cover applies.

The tests were performed with 2 Engis at my side. It may be worth noting, that when they got in front for Soft Cover, we expected a decrease of 30%, but experienced a decrease of only about 20%. Perhaps we didn't take all considerations into account, so not 100% sure on this one, but it is worth investigating further. On that note; "Self" does not count as a Friendly Target in a 360 degree aoe, does it?

Update: Few more tests performed.
-Flame Turret is affected. Soft cover applies. This covers the Flamethrower attack and the Steam Vent ability both.
-Bombardment Turret is not affected. This cover the High-Explosive Grenade ability.

[peterthepan3]

. All I see is unwillingness of two dusin of small scale players thats unwilling to adapt to the playstyle of ORVR and Developers cater to them instead of asking and listening to what the ORVR players think is the best for ORVR.

you mean unwilling to blob our way to cheap victories? that's because there is nothing inherently challenging about such a playstyle, hence why such changes are being tested so as to get more people involved in RvR that would otherwise not be motivated to do so. similarly, pug scenario was done to attract more people into scenarios, alleviating fears of being farmed by premades, etc.

[Tankbeardz]

All I see is unwillingness of two dusin of small scale players thats unwilling to adapt to the playstyle of ORVR and Developers cater to them instead of asking and listening to what the ORVR players think is the best for ORVR.

I'm no fan of these changes, myself, but you are speaking gibberish. Most of the balance changes I have seen are because of ORVR and pugs, which is understandable since that is the largest part of the population.

IMO the game will never be balanced until you can balance 6 man group mechanics (I'm not talking about competitive 6v6). People always seem to forget that warband composition is based on a set of 6 man groups.

[Zanilos]

. All I see is unwillingness of two dusin of small scale players thats unwilling to adapt to the playstyle of ORVR and Developers cater to them instead of asking and listening to what the ORVR players think is the best for ORVR.

you mean unwilling to blob our way to cheap victories? that's because there is nothing inherently challenging about such a playstyle, hence why such changes are being tested so as to get more people involved in RvR that would otherwise not be motivated to do so. similarly, pug scenario was done to attract more people into scenarios, alleviating fears of being farmed by premades, etc.

Situation A.

Keep defence. You dont guard the door. put all your guys on the walls, just use fiery blast on anything that comes through. Get huge dmg buff no dmg reduction.

Situation B.

Destro holding a keep. They use their sorcs at 40 ft and spam the **** out the conal. Nothing you can do about it.

and so on and so on.

Way too many situations where you can get the dmg bonus and mitigate against the reduction. This is being though of as a way that a small group of players can punish a large group. Now what will change is the large groups will be 100% selfish and only fight on their own terms. WBs will act as if they are kiting 6 mans, only punishing pugs.

This patch means more funnels, less offensive, more selfish play from large guilds.

[lastalien]

This patch means more funnels, less offensive, more selfish play from large guilds.

Full agree.

Combo FB + FB at 80ft will be awesome from 4 BW.

[roadkillrobin]

. All I see is unwillingness of two dusin of small scale players thats unwilling to adapt to the playstyle of ORVR and Developers cater to them instead of asking and listening to what the ORVR players think is the best for ORVR.

you mean unwilling to blob our way to cheap victories? that's because there is nothing inherently challenging about such a playstyle, hence why such changes are being tested so as to get more people involved in RvR that would otherwise not be motivated to do so. similarly, pug scenario was done to attract more people into scenarios, alleviating fears of being farmed by premades, etc.

No. As I pointed out blobbing is gonna exist weather or not this mechanic exist or not. The only thing thats gonna change is what skills the blob are pressing. AoEs setup arn't whats creating the blobs its actually the sollution to it. The lack of powerfull AoEs is actually what creates the blob mentallity. Pre first couple of AoE nerfs on live we actually saw 12 man bomb groups in the lakes not intreasted in zerging or anything. (Unnamed for example) It worked coz of powerfull AoE. Now, 3 nerfs to AoE later and we see that it takes 3 times the numbers, to pull the same thing of. 12 man of good cordinated group and using of defensive tools that was availible at the time could take out 3 times the numbers. The key is actually buffing AoEs to a point were you don't need to run with 2+ warbands to be able to kill anything.

As for the unwillingness of some small scale players to adapt. Its those players who refuses to play the meta game of ORVR and wants their cookicutter builds to remain staples in completly different enviroments then small scale. We don't see the ORVR community complain and whine about how thier bomb groups arn't a competative choise in a instance based small scale enviroment. No those players actually change gear, respec etz to adapt the meta.

[roadkillrobin]

All I see is unwillingness of two dusin of small scale players thats unwilling to adapt to the playstyle of ORVR and Developers cater to them instead of asking and listening to what the ORVR players think is the best for ORVR.

I'm no fan of these changes, myself, but you are speaking gibberish. Most of the balance changes I have seen are because of ORVR and pugs, which is understandable since that is the largest part of the population.

IMO the game will never be balanced until you can balance 6 man group mechanics (I'm not talking about competitive 6v6). People always seem to forget that warband composition is based on a set of 6 man groups.

No its not. Its a composition of 18-24 people. Not 3-4 6mans.

[Tankbeardz]

All I see is unwillingness of two dusin of small scale players thats unwilling to adapt to the playstyle of ORVR and Developers cater to them instead of asking and listening to what the ORVR players think is the best for ORVR.

I'm no fan of these changes, myself, but you are speaking gibberish. Most of the balance changes I have seen are because of ORVR and pugs, which is understandable since that is the largest part of the population.

IMO the game will never be balanced until you can balance 6 man group mechanics (I'm not talking about competitive 6v6). People always seem to forget that warband composition is based on a set of 6 man groups.

No its not. Its a composition of 18-24 people. Not 3-4 6mans.

And that thinking is why it will never get balanced. 4 coordinated 6 mans > 18-24 pugs. I have yet to see a 24 man group heal or cleanse...have you?

[Azarael]

Infernal Wave / Fiery Blast

Already realized this. AoEs that don't scale with Strength can no longer get a damage bonus (as of the keep lord patch last night.)

Healers

They were never supposed to be able to outheal this. That's the point - to make dense formations a weakness. You might as well have asked why artillery couldn't be outhealed in the days of Cannonhammer.

Odjira/QE

The solution to this problem is not to implement RNG passives that boost speed (causing major balance shifts), that don't stack with regular speed increases and that are available to every class in the game. No doubt someone will point out that changing AoE impacts small scale too - and yes, it does, but much, much less than Odjira and QE would, because of the nature of small scale. I internally suggested a tactic for MDPS to move more quickly in larger engagements and was shot down.

Engineer/Magus

Knew there would be side effects, more interested in whether the principle will work at the moment.

Reduction of combats to small scale

It's almost as if this is the intent. I don't know why some people are still under the impression that there is any skill or interest in the current implementation of large scale combat in this game. Your own fears make this clear - without bombing, you say, large scale combat will resolve down to mass ST. You make no mention of battlefield strategy and tactics, and it seems that the epitome of strategy in this game is a basic flank attack or hitting M2 in sync. I'm sorry but it doesn't make you amazing battlefield commanders. It's basic ****, and if the pinnacle of this game is getting 23 people to listen to you and fire off M2 in sync then you should be embarrassed.

This is likely to be an unpopular opinion, as usual. That's OK. I can honestly say that I've never been impressed by anything I've seen in ORvR, and I don't think that's because I'm the one with the problem.

AoE nerf

Not sure how you're getting the idea that this is meant to be a blanket AoE nerf. It might be looking that way due to miscalibration (I myself was underwhelmed by the performance) but it's more of a shift than a nerf.

[lastalien]

Infernal Wave / Fiery Blast

Already realized this. AoEs that don't scale with Strength can no longer get a damage bonus (as of the keep lord patch last night.)

I ask for explanation. This means that the damage increases only for a mele AoE?