Return of Reckoning

Nishka wrote:

rmpl wrote:Most of you are missing the point of this thread. Premades aren't that bad as long as they're actually trying to do the objective instead of farming noobs for 15minutes.

Playing in a pug doesn't make you a noob, playing in a premade doesn't make you a pro.

Reading this thread made me think otherwise.

On topic, I do agree something should be done. If objectives are not used/capped after 5 minutes, the scenario is declared over and no one wins emblems/exp/rr.

But, on the topic of premades in general. Double or some single premades have left a very sour taste in my mouth recently, and I have even questioned wanting to play in scenarios. It is part of human nature, if something is not enjoyable, we tend to not want to do it. With being stomped sometimes as soon as the gates, I have to question, how long until people stop queuing for scenarios?

I believe for the health of the community, it would be best if premades were turned off. My fear is, with such a small community, it is only a matter of time before people opt not to do scenarios. During certain times when I play during Eastern Standard Time, it can be difficult to find anything happening in the lakes, so I opt to join scenarios; but if scenarios are turning into slam fests, where my team barely cracks 100 points (not enough for a medallion), then why am I playing?

I agree with the suggestion of allowing people who choose to join solo to only be paired against other who join solo, and allow those who want to play in groups be paired against those who want to be in groups. I would also add, that if you are queued for one, that you can not be queued for another.

SCs in T3 at the current state to be somewhat enjoyable, require for you to create a premade yourself. In the past 2weeks I've not encountered a single scenario without a premade in it... So that's the only way, unless as discussed, there will be something new implemented to sort hardcore premades from pugs.

Reesh wrote:SCs in T3 at the current state to be somewhat enjoyable, require for you to create a premade yourself. In the past 2weeks I've not encountered a single scenario without a premade in it... So that's the only way, unless as discussed, there will be something new implemented to sort hardcore premades from pugs.

First step would be to separate r22-31 people from 32. It literally boggles my mind why devs haven't done it yet, even Mythic was smart enough to do it with 39 cap.

rmpl wrote:

Reesh wrote:SCs in T3 at the current state to be somewhat enjoyable, require for you to create a premade yourself. In the past 2weeks I've not encountered a single scenario without a premade in it... So that's the only way, unless as discussed, there will be something new implemented to sort hardcore premades from pugs.

First step would be to separate r22-31 people from 32. It literally boggles my mind why devs haven't done it yet, even Mythic was smart enough to do it with 39 cap.

So, casual players won't be just getting curbstomped by premades, they also will have to wait for hours to get smashed?

Nishka wrote:

rmpl wrote:

Reesh wrote:SCs in T3 at the current state to be somewhat enjoyable, require for you to create a premade yourself. In the past 2weeks I've not encountered a single scenario without a premade in it... So that's the only way, unless as discussed, there will be something new implemented to sort hardcore premades from pugs.

First step would be to separate r22-31 people from 32. It literally boggles my mind why devs haven't done it yet, even Mythic was smart enough to do it with 39 cap.

So, casual players won't be just getting curbstomped by premades, they also will have to wait for hours to get smashed?

They will at least be able to gear up with scenarios weapons, stalker set, 1-2 dev pieces and sc weapons before fighting those premades.

Rebuke wrote: It goes the other way around aswell mate; for people who want premade groups, pugs just ruin the gameplay experience for them.

True, but it is far more painful for pubbies to deal with premades than premades to deal with pubbies.

Ninepaces wrote: I know the real reason why you don't want to be in a premade. You WANT imbalance. You solo queue into an sc and hope your team is better than the other so you can stomp and get free stuff. You want free medallions and emblems without having to work for them and you're just angry you cant get them off of a premade. Thats where the hate is coming from. This whole balance reasoning you brought up is flawed bullshit you're hiding behind to cover the fact you're a cowardly bad player who can't be bothered to play and prepare well enough to earn stuff. You and all the puggers who join zerging wbs all love imbalance. In oRVR you join warbands so you can organize all the plebs together in one zerg in the hope your zerg is better than the other zerg and you can get some loot. Its the premades that fight realm pop imbalance, especially in oRVR, because its only them that even consider trying to fight 6v12-24. So please, take your holier-than-thou attitude and shove it up your ass. I know what kind of scumbag player you are and you're not fooling me.

Thank you for showing what an ass-hat you really are, insulting people because they have a different opinion to you really doesn't support your cause nor your opinion. And I don't want imbalance, I want the guarantee of balanced randomness, meaning that both sides will consist of random players assorted together giving them a random number of class types with different gear, levels ect. Rather than being faced against an imbalanced random team which comes in the form of a premade having high gear levels, high level characters, the ability to communicate and focus fire individuals (allowing them to push people to spawn and farming them). Or in simple math its team pub X, lets say this time the team max skill value including gear, level ect comes to 6, but due to random match making the teams skill level is around 5.3, then compare it to another random imbalanced team that can have a higher skill level due to communication comes in every time at a guaranteed skill level 8+ (and only adding 2 on is being harsh on myself). Now if you have a well made premade it means every pubby battle you fight, even if they are the best they could possibly be without going premade are going to most likely lose, that is not balanced. For both sides of a SC to be truly balanced they need to be made up of random people with random skill and item levels, basically no side should know their own skill level %unknown vs %unknown, until the battle starts which pugs vs pugs would at most be extremes of what we see now vs pugs which is %20 pugs vs %80 premade, pugs vs pugs would be far more balanced and people would stop complaining because there is no reason other than the match making system to blame for any further imbalance to SC's.

Delete

Scottx125 wrote:

Rebuke wrote: It goes the other way around aswell mate; for people who want premade groups, pugs just ruin the gameplay experience for them.

True, but it is far more painful for pubbies to deal with premades than premades to deal with pubbies.

Ninepaces wrote: I know the real reason why you don't want to be in a premade. You WANT imbalance. You solo queue into an sc and hope your team is better than the other so you can stomp and get free stuff. You want free medallions and emblems without having to work for them and you're just angry you cant get them off of a premade. Thats where the hate is coming from. This whole balance reasoning you brought up is flawed bullshit you're hiding behind to cover the fact you're a cowardly bad player who can't be bothered to play and prepare well enough to earn stuff. You and all the puggers who join zerging wbs all love imbalance. In oRVR you join warbands so you can organize all the plebs together in one zerg in the hope your zerg is better than the other zerg and you can get some loot. Its the premades that fight realm pop imbalance, especially in oRVR, because its only them that even consider trying to fight 6v12-24. So please, take your holier-than-thou attitude and shove it up your ass. I know what kind of scumbag player you are and you're not fooling me.

Thank you for showing what an ass-hat you really are, insulting people because they have a different opinion to you really doesn't support your cause nor your opinion. And I don't want imbalance, I want the guarantee of balanced randomness, meaning that both sides will consist of random players assorted together giving them a random number of class types with different gear, levels ect. Rather than being faced against an imbalanced random team which comes in the form of a premade having high gear levels, high level characters, the ability to communicate and focus fire individuals (allowing them to push people to spawn and farming them). Or in simple math its team pub X, lets say this time the team max skill value including gear, level ect comes to 6, but due to random match making the teams skill level is around 5.3, then compare it to another random imbalanced team that can have a higher skill level due to communication comes in every time at a guaranteed skill level 8+ (and only adding 2 on is being harsh on myself). Now if you have a well made premade it means every pubby battle you fight, even if they are the best they could possibly be without going premade are going to most likely lose, that is not balanced. For both sides of a SC to be truly balanced they need to be made up of random people with random skill and item levels, basically no side should know their own skill level %unknown vs %unknown, until the battle starts which pugs vs pugs would at most be extremes of what we see now vs pugs which is %20 pugs vs %80 premade, pugs vs pugs would be far more balanced and people would stop complaining because there is no reason other than the match making system to blame for any further imbalance to SC's.

Can you step back and listen to what you are complaining about? Take out all the fallacious arguments and invalid premises and you are literally crying because you can't win playing the way YOU want to... When all the options and avenues to win are available to you right now. But your rebutle is "Well I don't want to play that way" only problem is . That is the way the game is designed to work. See the little radio button labeled "Join as party" ? That's the way the game was built. It was built to play as either, and the major flaw with your proposal to separate the two queue options is that it would divide and already SMALL community thus increasing queue times and making the gaming experience even less pleasurable. Every facet of this game is not going to be designed around your liking. Domt forget that quite often a 6 man pug paired with a 6 man premade in a full scenario can do quite well vs even a double premade on the other side. It's not always 12 pugs vs double premade. You might just have bad luck queueing at times and get a bad draw. You might actually enjoy teaming up with guildies and running a premade with team speak to coordinate your strategies. I mean being forced to pug with nothing more than the chat window to coordinate??? What a nightmare.

Exactly, same points I've made quite a few pages back.
This is going to a be a lengthy post, but be sure that I have my best hopes not to insult anyone and would try to give my most positive opinion on this very sad matter in the very opinionated thread.

WAR was, in my opinion, one of the good examples of great era of MMOs, where it was all about the ingame interaction between the people playing it.
Where you as a solo player could achieve little but as a group/guild/realm you can and will come to end game, if you are willing to cooperate, to combine your efforts, to unite as a team. You could even trace this in the early WAR podcasts where mythics tell you that even scenarios and PQ granted you victory points towards your realm.

It was so meaningful in almost every aspect that people this still crave for the same feelings they've experienced. The games were flawed, imbalanced, unequal but extremely engaging and fun to play regardless, some could even say that being so imperfect made the games so great. Where you had no way to change and just went with it, winning and losing in the process, even battling it out with the mentioned by OP douches in constant ingame and forum bantz.

But now those days are gone and most multilayer interactions have switched and era of MOBAs has come, where you as a player is the centre of universe, for fulfilling your role on the battlefield in a very competitive environment but without a common goal aside winning one match, that would be forgotten right after another.

And with that came the notion that pugging is the way it should be played, forever changing the gaming world. You as a player became somehow entitled to achieve the things, that only dedicated groups could, by only pressing matchmaking button and god forbid the game match you against some who even dares to queue together.

But sadly such the achievements are more often than not felt empty, and if you are willing share them with your ingame friends - you will be looked down upon by the majority of the "true" solo gamers by "cheating" and "not playing the game properly" and "ruining others fun", flavourful game flaws should be removed to make everyone seem "equal", but sadly grey and dull. Must be a generation thing, idk, where the idea that some should never even lose.

People like that are now the majority, their voices are loud to change the minds of the developers, who more often then not knew better what was best for the game. So even the games of the past should be remade to fit them. Just look at plain old WoW and how it lost all of if uniting glory of the vanilla-wotlk slowly degrading into that lfr-garrison empty monstrosity we have today.

I've experienced all of this on both the sides of the argument, pugging and running a premade in a lot of games for the last 10+ years, but I don't expect people to believe me and don't even hope to change anyones mind on the matter.
To sum it up, my hopes are that RoR development team, who could only have my best praises, seriously, would not go in the same direction, when war becomes meaningless grind of epics for a bunch of trendy loners but instead revives the glory of WAR of the old days.



*some spelling fixes*