DPS spec tank/healer Hypocrisy

[footpatrol2]

Your the minority in that, out of the RoR population that thinks the guard mechanic needs to be changed. I don't think it should and I think most would agree with me.

To answer earlier questions.
I mainly play tanks but have 8 destro 40's and can play all archtypes to a decent level. But I play a tank predominately as it is most needed. I play during NA time. I form premade group comps so... I don't have a problem with grouping. I rarely solo because I have built a large network of friends so I don't have to solo.

If I were to solo I'll watch mdps players and assist guard them. I'll assist on there targets. If they have bad target selection. I'll not guard them. I'll even whisper to the player that I'm guarding them because I know you can play differently if a mdps has a dedicated guard. If the mdps performs decently I'll even ask him to duo with me for solo que's after the sc. If I really like him I'll friend him and hope to group with him in the future.

I've lead premade groups where the tank is the main assist. In such a situation the mdps is following and assist the tank. The main assist does not have to be the mdps although it is traditional that it is. As someone said earlier in this thread. Everything is about trust.

When you solo you can't trust or you looking for players that you can trust. With a extremely a minimal amount of effort you can build that trust by just providing a whisper.

[th3gatekeeper]

Your the minority in that, out of the RoR population that thinks the guard mechanic needs to be changed. I don't think it should and I think most would agree with me.

To answer earlier questions.
I mainly play tanks but have 8 destro 40's and can play all archtypes to a decent level. But I play a tank predominately as it is most needed. I play during NA time. I form premade group comps so... I don't have a problem with grouping. I rarely solo because I have built a large network of friends so I don't have to solo.

Still didnt answer my questions though.

"What do you like about guard"

[tazdingo]

i like that guard helps me die in 3 second when we have 3 choppas and a dps dok

[footpatrol2]

In short I like everything about guard.

[Telperien]

I agree, guard mechanic makes RoR stand out of many similar MMOs, newer abandon trinity and give a bit of everthing to evry class. Guard makes u need to group up with others to play effectively.

Ok, what do YOU like about guard? Because it seems to me, doing a rework of guard wouldnt "abandon the trinity". It does NOTHING to abandon the trinity at all.... In fact it reinforces it even further. If more tanks are using guard. It makes it even MORE important that other players do their jobs as well....

I dont see how these are mutually exclusive. Do you not thing that we can rework guard and still "make you need to group up to play effective?!" It still largely seems the exact same thing and importance on a party...... I think guard is a small "piece" of what you are describing that as a whole does apply to WAR/ROR and you could remove Guard altogether or modify guard and still have a VERY high level of class dependency...

Guard is one if not only skill in game that devide good tanks from avarage. Hell, it decides so often on win or lose. If u want to change it, i`m sure it will lose its meaning and less ppl will want to play guard/tank role. From that point whole idea about RoR group composition will change. Would you like to risk that?

Personally what I like about guard:
1 Gives a meaning to tanks in game,
2 Increase TTD by a lot,
3 makes a backbone of a group,
4 makes "bond" between guardee and guarder,
5 the way how you use it tells a lot about engagement into party and game

[th3gatekeeper]

In short I like everything about guard.

Im glad you are willing to discuss it Thanks for sharing.... I guess we will see where this game ends up in a year or two... I dont see NA getting "off the ground" aside from a few small pockets of players (which you seem to be part of 1). Most NA players I talk to, or recruit to this game, dont stick around long because of issues LIKE Guard - where solo/PUG play or casual play is very punishing depending on your class.

EU has always been strong, however as time goes on, people get bored and move on after they have all their gear. Id be curious to see population trends. I know about a year ago there were constantly over 1k players during prime time, which forced them to upgrade the server. I havnt seen it break 1k in a while.... Even if it has ~ the same population. I know many "higher profile" names have left and no growth over a year, is worrisome. Especially at this stage with Az "inactive" which seriously halted progression/development which means the same type of "fall off" we saw months after T4 launched and stuff like Merc was "BIS" will happen again in another few months...

All in all, if we are not attracting fresh blood to the game its going to remaind a niche game for "LIVE" players - which you seem very fond of LIVE days and very passionate about racial warbands and stuff like that.

Anyways, I hope I am wrong... but I have been playing this project on an off for a while now on multiple accounts and have played both sides extensively in SCs and RVR, especially before T4 released, and my ENTIRE time playing this game, has been met with a very difficult time playing during NA hours - not for lack of my trying to find good people to play with.

Several others have also agreed in this thread and MANY others outside this thread that I talk to say similar things, "you cant do **** unless you have a full group".

[peterthepan3]

I find it comical that you think a 'reworking of guard = mdps staying alive'.

Reworking guard won't suddenly make people start using their brains. It is a community problem - and not a mechanic problem. Those people you speak of in your very specific hypothetical situation won't suddenly think 'wow! I have a reason to use my guard!'. If they're not using their guard already - even though it mitigates 50% of your guarded teammate's damage - then they're just idiots. What more incentive do you need, seriously?!

It's like saying, 'I'm not going to cast this 2 second heal, even though it could heal that teammate back to 100% from 12%, because it isn't fun. No, I think I'll just stand here and wait'. If you don't find the tank archetype fun/engaging, then play a DPS.

If an idiot is not utilising his abilities, or playing his archetype as per its description, it is his problem - and not the game's.

Hilarious that this topic has been discussed for even more than a page.

[lilsabin]

how about this... make "GUARD" an ability that gives 50% damage reduction for 10 secs to all groupmembers with a 45 sec cooldown , then increase other class survivability ... Being a choppa or a slayer in this game is a real pain to the butt (i know it s easy for u people that are in organised guild with lots of friend) , but for a casual player it s **** PAINFULL... make slayer/choppa rage increase the damage they receive by 30% instead of making them receive CRIT damage all the time (dont forget , certains classes get bonus by criting) . this will be a good start

[dansari]

I find it comical that you think a 'reworking of guard = mdps staying alive'.

Reworking guard won't suddenly make people start using their brains. It is a community problem - and not a mechanic problem. Those people you speak of in your very specific hypothetical situation won't suddenly think 'wow! I have a reason to use my guard!'. If they're not using their guard already - even though it mitigates 50% of your guarded teammate's damage - then they're just idiots. What more incentive do you need, seriously?!

It's like saying, 'I'm not going to cast this 2 second heal, even though it could heal that teammate back to 100% from 12%, because it isn't fun. No, I think I'll just stand here and wait'. If you don't find the tank archetype fun/engaging, then play a DPS.

If an idiot is not utilising his abilities, or playing his archetype as per its description, it is his problem - and not the game's.

Hilarious that this topic has been discussed for even more than a page.

While giving no benefit to the tank and making them a guard bot in solo play with other solo players. There are two staunch sides here in my opinion: players who always play in premades (or always attempt to) and those who don't or have seen what night time NA looks like. Gate's point is that, yes, you may love these mechanics if you're a player from live. What he wants you to acknowledge is that maybe there is a large portion of a potential player base, that might never post on the forum, that does not like these mechanics.

[Dabbart]

I find it comical that you think a 'reworking of guard = mdps staying alive'.

Reworking guard won't suddenly make people start using their brains. It is a community problem - and not a mechanic problem. Those people you speak of in your very specific hypothetical situation won't suddenly think 'wow! I have a reason to use my guard!'. If they're not using their guard already - even though it mitigates 50% of your guarded teammate's damage - then they're just idiots. What more incentive do you need, seriously?!

It's like saying, 'I'm not going to cast this 2 second heal, even though it could heal that teammate back to 100% from 12%, because it isn't fun. No, I think I'll just stand here and wait'. If you don't find the tank archetype fun/engaging, then play a DPS.

If an idiot is not utilising his abilities, or playing his archetype as per its description, it is his problem - and not the game's.

Hilarious that this topic has been discussed for even more than a page.

For the record, I do that all the time... Easier to rezz you out of harms way than to try and heal through stupidity:P

Jokes aside, well stated.

Guard really isn't a difficult ability to use properly. It takes timing, and some patience. You HAVE to have at least the basics for addons(enemy) and a basic ability to "read" inc attacks. IE, healdebuffs major BW/Sorc rotations, watch that WL pounce/mara pull, etc. Guard Botting is dumb. You are assisting, and preparing targets for your DPS. You are interrupt the backline's attempt to rezz/heal, you are stopping the enemys melee train in their tracks, and forcing them to about face to stop you wrecking their backline...

If you find Tanking boring, odds are you aren't actually Tanking anything 'properly". Or you are Solo tanking. Which yes, gets really really old. Why? cause you can't directly communicate with that DPS you are trying to help. Answer?
FORM A **** GROUP