Return of Reckoning

bloodi wrote: Yeah the difference is that is that guy fault, not yours, yet you are playing a team game, when someone in your team underperforms or makes a mistake, you all pay for it, if you dont like it, well, too bad for you.
Thats what games based around group play are about.

We are not talking about a guy from my group. We are talking about randoms from my faction who have no idea what they are doing. There's plenty of them. 90% of all players are struggling with their basic rotation and you are telling me if they screw up their positioning that is "too bad for me"?

bloodi wrote: You are getting ridiculous, your basis of argumentation circles around somehow, WLs being an auto win with no counterplay.


If there is a isolated target, the WL jumps in, kills it thanks to the magic of whoknowswhat and escapes for free, if there is no isolated targets the Wl team wins because no one is isolated.

Warhammer online is so easy.

I was under the impression that the clumping up was a general situation that sometimes happens, in which case the clumping faction is using a really bad tactic and losing anyway, given somewhat equal numbers. That had nothing to do with the WL. But you actually believe that to be a viable tactic to counter WL. Lol

They dont have anywhatsoever as long as your team adapts and plays around it. So i would say that yes, you do have a problem handling wls.

From now on I'll tell my team to all clump up so the Lion can't escape. If I only knew those superior tactics before

deslage wrote:"A good SH can kill a WL if they use cc smartly".

So can SW, put to the test with friendly duels. GG pounce that landed to where I was standing before and in range of self KB + aussie lag. Was cake facing Pounce instead of TE. The best mDPS weapon against rDPS is TE, therefore I think it should be SW and not Squig who has the superior kiting tools. Give RUN AWAY! to SW.

How is that going to help? As s SH/SW you are playing keep away with your on the move abilities staying out of pounce 65ft range and TE 65ft range.

If a SH manages to snare them when they pop charge(and they haven't used snare-break/immunity yet) its all over. If they use their snare immunity and then charge you attempt to disarm so they can't pounce when they reach 65ft range in the next few seconds and hope you have enough damage to kill them before they kill you. Once they do get on you there will be a snare up on you 100% of the time(and they have pounce) so RUN AWAY tactic isn't going to do much of anything. At best if they haven't snared you yet you can use the manual Run Away and force them to spam pounce for sub-par dps.

A SW has it easier because they have an extra safety net in eye shot. Hell, you could even interrupt TE with it. They don't put out as much damage (I think) as the SH + Squig so its sort of balances out.

magter3001 wrote:The real question is what are people willing to give to the WL for any of the pounce changes...

If pounce is gonna be on a 10s cooldown... wouldn't that mean it would have to be miles more reliable than it is now, maybe land on top of the player than next to him. Though my guess is people will still find that OP, and possibly even worse than the state it is now.

If pounce does get changed then I would suggest 5-10s cd with a 2 second root that ignores root immunity and does not give immunity. But imo it works decently enough the way it is right now.

pounce stop to be use mid air---> do not need a motivation, you cannot jump using "air" as base it's stupid.

pounce requiring a CD--> this matter regard as the pressure + escape tool pounce is use.

1-If you overextend boom pounce , every **** time on a single healer...... have a good skill alsp mean be able to use it at the right moment, a gap closer with no CD is just as pay to win, dosen matter how many time you will fail kill one you will kill something in the end and this is wrong and this also keep in check partys with 1 healer and 2 healer dps.

2-the need of a CD to cut the pounce as escaping tool is self explicatory, even the mara that can be immune to armor penetration cannot go out of range in this way; we are talking about a tool that can make you move over 1 wb by simple jump over target by target getting out of : morales, melee, ranged damages.

Shadowgurke wrote:We are not talking about a guy from my group. We are talking about randoms from my faction who have no idea what they are doing. There's plenty of them. 90% of all players are struggling with their basic rotation and you are telling me if they screw up their positioning that is "too bad for me"?

Yes?

What the hell do you expect? Seriously, tell me. Because i can use that argument for every single skill in the game, we should not die to anything because according to you people is bad right? You see the slippery slope you want to start here?

Shadowgurke wrote:I was under the impression that the clumping up was a general situation that sometimes happens, in which case the clumping faction is using a really bad tactic and losing anyway, given somewhat equal numbers. That had nothing to do with the WL. But you actually believe that to be a viable tactic to counter WL. Lol

This is great, the same guy who just told me that he should not be punished for people of his realm playing badly is saying the following:

A) Isolated healers die to Wls, hence, having healers away from their group equals loss.

B) Healers clumped with their group is a bad tactic and will make you lose.

So i can only assume that you are saying that having a WL in 6vs6 in an automatic win with no counterplay possible?

Shadowgurke wrote:From now on I'll tell my team to all clump up so the Lion can't escape. If I only knew those superior tactics before

From now on everytime i die or get anywhere near losing, i will argue that i should not be punished for the actions of "randoms" i have no control of, as every other single player game out there. lol.

bloodi wrote: What the hell do you expect? Seriously, tell me. Because i can use that argument for every single skill in the game, we should not die to anything because according to you people is bad right? You see the slippery slope you want to start here?

You started this by saying that WLs can only pounce when people play bad. I am simply telling you that this is the case pretty much all the time. You are suggesting that is fine, people have to L2P. I am saying that this is not fine because realistically that is not going to happen. Agree to disagree here I guess

bloodi wrote: This is great, the same guy who just told me that he should not be punished for people of his realm playing badly is saying the following:

A) Isolated healers die to Wls, hence, having healers away from their group equals loss.


So i can only assume that you are saying that having a WL in 6vs6 in an automatic win with no counterplay possible?

Careful now. People said that in this thread, that does not mean that I share this sentiment. WL attacking healers in an instant is the strength of the WL and this absolutely needs to stay. Isolated healers don't just die to a WL if they play correctly, although they can be pressured really hard.

bloodi wrote: From now on everytime i die or get anywhere near losing, i will argue that i should not be punished for the actions of "randoms" i have no control of, as every other single player game out there. lol.

That is precisely why you don't get punished for losing a Scenario

Guys stop derailing and being aggressive!

OT:
* Pounce could do with a cooldown (no more than 5 seconds, otherwise it becomes meh and doesn't fit in with the idea of the WL being the mobile in-and-out DPS). However WL is not an OP class - contrary to what some people would have you believe - and any adjustments to it should be tested thoroughly.

please remove pounce and give the WL an ic hd instead. do it just for one week. it will make this whole whine squad here begging for a re implementation of pounce faster than you can count to three.

Bretin wrote:please remove pounce and give the WL an ic hd instead. do it just for one week. it will make this whole whine squad here begging for a re implementation of pounce faster than you can count to three.

please remove heal defuff and give every melee DPS an pounce instead. do it just for one week. it will make this whole whine squad here begging for a re implementation of in hd faster that you can count to three

peterthepan3 wrote:Guys stop derailing and being aggressive!

OT:
* Pounce could do with a cooldown (no more than 5 seconds, otherwise it becomes meh and doesn't fit in with the idea of the WL being the mobile in-and-out DPS). However WL is not an OP class - contrary to what some people would have you believe - and any adjustments to it should be tested thoroughly.

Remember when Rending Blade got a 5 sec CD? I still feel like I spam it all the time and have room for ~ 2 moves inbetween each rending blade. Usually this is some form of taunt/slow/ravage/suppression.

For any WL that thinks 5 seconds is too short - it just means you are one of the ones abusing it a bit... With GCDs you really only have time for 2 attacks between the GCD and if you need to press it more then that, IDK what to say except give me rending blade with no CD back then lol

Shadowgurke wrote: You started this by saying that WLs can only pounce when people play bad. I am simply telling you that this is the case pretty much all the time. You are suggesting that is fine, people have to L2P. I am saying that this is not fine because realistically that is not going to happen. Agree to disagree here I guess

No, i didnt start ****, i just replied to people who are constantly claiming that Wls fly to their healers, kill them then have assured escape routes.

This, is major bullshit. On the healers part and on the assured escape routes part, both can be countered.

You say that realistically, a WL can do that easily and happens all the time and that it should be looked at for it. I say that since its a matter of positioning and discipline, its on people to solve that, not the devs.

Shadowgurke wrote:Careful now. People said that in this thread, that does not mean that I share this sentiment. WL attacking healers in an instant is the strength of the WL and this absolutely needs to stay. Isolated healers don't just die to a WL if they play correctly, although they can be pressured really hard.

Well if the only problem is thaat after attacking such healer they can jump onto another target fast, well, that is the point of WL, its all they have together with burst.

They lack in every other aspect, they are subpar if you kill the pet compared to any other mdps, if you remove mobility, whats left?

Shadowgurke wrote:That is precisely why you don't get punished for losing a Scenario

Losing is a punishment, losing doesnt grant as much medallions, exp or rr. You get punished for losing a Scenario.