Return of Reckoning

Penril wrote:Order has more dwarfs than destro.

Which is a disadvantage because guard attacks come from 1,5m high and a bit to the side which makes them overheads against a crouching dwarf.

And dont get me started with how mad they get when you call them "challenged"

Penril wrote: Make up your mind. We were talking about Challenge, and people were saying that Dots can remove Challenge too. No one said anything about Dots and guard.

em ok but mine-your discussion was not revolved around that, which make nanji comment irrelevant regard that matter :/

Well appart that i remeber aza told something time ago. If not mistake there was a whole taunt/challenge thread or github page related for all these things were something got told about this issue and was decide to fix it later or maybe i mistake with another issue, not sure.

His comment was not irrelevant. You were claiming that order removed Challenge more easily than destro. He said that you should name the skills/dots on order side that remove challenge so easily. Otherwise, it is just another case of "order has more block than destro".

Let's remember what happened with "order has more block than destro", shall we?

- A Chosen can mitigate more guard damage thanks to +50% parry than a KotBS can do with his +10% block/+15% parry (and come on, you didn't even know that Guard damage could be parried regardless of the source)
- Black Orcs can have more block than SMs (but SM can have more parry)
- I don't know a single IB that specs for Shield Mastery.

So if you claim that order has an easier time removing Challenge than destro, the burden of proof is on you.

Penril wrote:- I don't know a single IB that specs for Shield Mastery.

You mean at the current level right?

Because i am almost certain IBs run something like this at rank 40 http://waronlinebuilder.org/#career=ib; ... 5:;0:0:0:0:

Now i use either http://waronlinebuilder.org/#career=ib; ... 3:;0:0:0:0: for snb
or http://waronlinebuilder.org/#career=ib; ... 3:;0:0:0:0: for 2h but i am not entirely sold on greataxe mastery instead of oathbound and Grudge-born fury sucks.

Oathstone is almost completly useless for group play, only makes sense if you're playing solo.

OT: something should be done with KotBS one of these days. They can go full deftard and still have capped Str (so their attacks rarely get parried, unlike Tesq's, so they can freely use their CC). On top of that they can increase the overall crit of their group's by 20% (10% for eveybody else since EA affects the enemy directly) while being AFK.

BGs need to spend 14 points in order to do the same as Encouraged Aim (8 points). CD requires a 2H weapon, lasts 5 seconds and has a 10s CD, while EA has a 100% uptime and can be used in SnB/2H.

Suggestion: Change Dire Shielding, Corrupting Power or Embrace the Winds (Chosen tactics) to something like "reduces the chance to be crit of your group by 10%" to directly counter one of the KotBS tactics.

BG+Chosen: 10% reduced chance to be crit for their group, 10% increased chance to be crit for enemies (If BG is 2H).

KotBS (alone, SnB): 20% overall increased chance to crit his enemies.

Order would still have the advantage on the Crit race.

Not to mention that the crit tactic on kotbs also increases chance for crit heals

There was a suggestion recently made that i liked which was that the iniative buff from runefang should be moved and put on Emps champ and the str buff from EC removed

tomato wrote:Oathstone is almost completly useless for group play, only makes sense if you're playing solo.

I didnt play it on retail but i remember our IB running it for burst situations, its a guaranteed block on the next 4 attacks, will soak a lot of damage for that alone.

But hey, if you have a better spec feel free to share.

bloodi wrote:

Penril wrote:- I don't know a single IB that specs for Shield Mastery.

You mean at the current level right?

Because i am almost certain IBs run something like this at rank 40 http://waronlinebuilder.org/#career=ib; ... 5:;0:0:0:0:

Now i use either http://waronlinebuilder.org/#career=ib; ... 3:;0:0:0:0: for snb
or http://waronlinebuilder.org/#career=ib; ... 3:;0:0:0:0: for 2h but i am not entirely sold on greataxe mastery instead of oathbound and Grudge-born fury sucks.

If you go for Shield Mastery, that means you lose two of the following:

- Ancestor's Fury
- Cave In
- Punishing Knock
- Earthshatter

To all those IB's: Be my guests, you can have your extra 10% block.

Penril wrote:If you go for Shield Mastery, that means you lose two of the following:

- Ancestor's Fury
- Cave In
- Punishing Knock
- Earthshatter

To all those IB's: Be my guests, you can have your extra 10% block.

Currently, hence why i ask, if you mean right now?

At 40 i see no reason to not run the build i linked.