Update 01/09

[Mez]

It's hard to even open these RoR threads without cringing. Is this not a restoration project? People want to play WAR, not some new game with a war skin. Please don't change shatter limbs or group cleanse or any the other crazy QQ suggestions in forums. Order is easy mode, destro is hard mode, that has always been the way, and it shouldn't be messed with.

And shatter limbs is a cooldown increaser, it does NOTHING drastic. People have a dozen other skills, AP pots (great time to drink one) and other various activities they can do. It's only tough for bad players to spam group heal, and die to it, and only find out later on why they died from a better guildie. And then, make no mental effort to improve upon or deal with, or begin to notice the debuff when applied, despite knowing about it. Eventually these people make their way into forums and ask for help. Shattered limbs is only good because it doesn't grey out your hotbars, or give notification. But there's enough addons to warn you such as Aura, Buffhead 2, or you can even just take an ounce of effort to KNOW it's coming when you see a slayer, and watch your skills for the increases once they start.

The chosen/knight aura change I didn't understand. The middle man Az cut out still required players to remember to twist by tapping a keybind every few seconds. There are many fights where people forget to twist auras. You even hear good players in ventrilo say after fights, oops, they forgot to twist that whole time. Auras offer a combination of 6 AOE buffs and debuffs at all times, there is no global cooldown, but that's offset by not delivering damage tooltip when the debuffs are applied. It is the most powerful mechanic in the game, and now any joe schmo can run around and not put any effort into remembering or practice keeping it up, while at the same time pvping, floating guard, assisting or other various actions. Even with Twister making it easier, you still had to play the game. Now you don't.

Encouraging balance conversation and game changes forfeits this project as an emulator or Warhammer. I just had to say it, in case others were thinking it. You may now return to your scheduled program of destroying a well loved game.

[Vigfuss]

When one realm's FOTM seems a bit stronger it's easy to point out specific active abilities, but these are also the things that make the game interesting and challenging to play.

I think the passive imbalances should be looked at first, and I think Kobts, and SM / BO is a great place to start. With changes to the passive things, it will still take skill to play the game, but better balance might be achieved without it feeling like a different game.

[Azarael]

I was wondering when the hardcore conservatives would appear in this thread.

You should pretty much accept that if the game is shown to be unbalanced, it's going to be changed in the future. It's as simple as that. Conservatives should better direct their energy to presenting arguments for why the game is balanced than making broad sweeping statements about what people want or don't want, or what should or should not be "messed with."

I don't much respect people who want the original Warhammer, exactly how it was, no changes at all, because a refusal to accept the game's flaws and imbalance is not worthy of respect, and I will not see those with a forward-thinking mindset forced to step back simply because some people don't like that and are going to make overly dramatic, scaremongering posts implying that any change proposed must make the game a completely different one.

As for the aura change - it was explicitly stated that people used Twister in combination with macros, so I don't buy that at all. The mechanic is predictable rote without any thought required, and as such, like anything else which is fully predictable, can be (and was) automated.

[Vigfuss]

I was wondering when the hardcore conservatives would appear in this thread.

You should pretty much accept that if the game is shown to be unbalanced, it's going to be changed in the future. It's as simple as that. Conservatives should better direct their energy to presenting arguments for why the game is balanced than making broad sweeping statements about what people want or don't want, or what should or should not be "messed with."

Not sure if you were referring to my post there or not. I just think that small changes can make a big difference, and for that reason it would be good to make small changes and see how they work out over a period of time instead of making a lot of changes.

[Azarael]

Sorry, my post was @Mez. I agree with your post 100%.

[Tklees]

I like the st CD increase but aoe damage fix to SL. It would kinda mirror choppas ability in 2 hand tree. Then we could rework chop faster into maybe a group charge? Could be a solid counter go pounce. And makes the choppa extremely mobile with 2x charge. Could keep same 2 min cd

[feefy1]

Az, please take a look at Magus dots. Perhaps the coefficients for damage, cool down and cost can be looked at. Nothing game breaking just a suggestion.

[Azarael]

Right now I'm not looking at anything because I doubt I'd be able to get the support required even to change SM and BO.

[Penril]

Spoiler:

It's hard to even open these RoR threads without cringing. Is this not a restoration project? People want to play WAR, not some new game with a war skin. Please don't change shatter limbs or group cleanse or any the other crazy QQ suggestions in forums. Order is easy mode, destro is hard mode, that has always been the way, and it shouldn't be messed with.

And shatter limbs is a cooldown increaser, it does NOTHING drastic. People have a dozen other skills, AP pots (great time to drink one) and other various activities they can do. It's only tough for bad players to spam group heal, and die to it, and only find out later on why they died from a better guildie. And then, make no mental effort to improve upon or deal with, or begin to notice the debuff when applied, despite knowing about it. Eventually these people make their way into forums and ask for help. Shattered limbs is only good because it doesn't grey out your hotbars, or give notification. But there's enough addons to warn you such as Aura, Buffhead 2, or you can even just take an ounce of effort to KNOW it's coming when you see a slayer, and watch your skills for the increases once they start.

The chosen/knight aura change I didn't understand. The middle man Az cut out still required players to remember to twist by tapping a keybind every few seconds. There are many fights where people forget to twist auras. You even hear good players in ventrilo say after fights, oops, they forgot to twist that whole time. Auras offer a combination of 6 AOE buffs and debuffs at all times, there is no global cooldown, but that's offset by not delivering damage tooltip when the debuffs are applied. It is the most powerful mechanic in the game, and now any joe schmo can run around and not put any effort into remembering or practice keeping it up, while at the same time pvping, floating guard, assisting or other various actions. Even with Twister making it easier, you still had to play the game. Now you don't.

Encouraging balance conversation and game changes forfeits this project as an emulator or Warhammer. I just had to say it, in case others were thinking it. You may now return to your scheduled program of destroying a well loved game.

Autohotkey or a G15 keyboard made it so you didn't even have to press the Twist key. It made the Chosen/KotBS pretty much the same as it is in RoR.

I disagree with Order being easy mode and Destro hard mode. Not because it isn't true; i disagree with it being that way. Why should a player be punished with hard-mode only because he prefers Greenskins or Chaos?

[Coryphaus]

It's hard to even open these RoR threads without cringing. Is this not a restoration project? People want to play WAR, not some new game with a war skin. Please don't change shatter limbs or group cleanse or any the other crazy QQ suggestions in forums. Order is easy mode, destro is hard mode, that has always been the way, and it shouldn't be messed with.

"One faction is easier than the other thats how it should be"

Yeah....no you realize how retarded that sounds, am i even supposed to take you seriously now? War was a massive debackle in balancing and no one wants to see it like that again

And shatter limbs is a cooldown increaser, it does NOTHING drastic. People have a dozen other skills, AP pots (great time to drink one) and other various activities they can do. It's only tough for bad players to spam group heal, and die to it, and only find out later on why they died from a better guildie. And then, make no mental effort to improve upon or deal with, or begin to notice the debuff when applied, despite knowing about it. Eventually these people make their way into forums and ask for help. Shattered limbs is only good because it doesn't grey out your hotbars, or give notification. But there's enough addons to warn you such as Aura, Buffhead 2, or you can even just take an ounce of effort to KNOW it's coming when you see a slayer, and watch your skills for the increases once they start.

Ap pots do absolutely nothing to deal with cool downs and furthermore ap potions were another balance issue in the game because they made certain abilities irrelevant or useless because of them

Shatter limber is just too strong plain and simple and you's have to have no concept of game balance to think that the ability is ok espicaly x2 slayer 6 mans putting out 100% up time shatter limbs

The chosen/knight aura change I didn't understand. The middle man Az cut out still required players to remember to twist by tapping a keybind every few seconds. There are many fights where people forget to twist auras. You even hear good players in ventrilo say after fights, oops, they forgot to twist that whole time. Auras offer a combination of 6 AOE buffs and debuffs at all times, there is no global cooldown, but that's offset by not delivering damage tooltip when the debuffs are applied. It is the most powerful mechanic in the game, and now any joe schmo can run around and not put any effort into remembering or practice keeping it up, while at the same time pvping, floating guard, assisting or other various actions. Even with Twister making it easier, you still had to play the game. Now you don't.

MUH SKILL CAP!1!1!

Literally no one complains about this but you apparently

Encouraging balance conversation and game changes forfeits this project as an emulator or Warhammer. I just had to say it, in case others were thinking it. You may now return to your scheduled program of destroying a well loved game.

This is not a warhammer copy this is warhammer with changes made for the better, you people need to realize that this game was VERY flawed and needs to be re balanced