Patch Notes 22/08/2024

[Zxul]

Spec renown parry or init and you will parry quite enough to trigger those abilities. Classes like WH/WE/Choppa/(idk about Slayer) have additionally quite high base init and a lot init on the relevant gear sets.

plus WH and WE got many ways to boost their init

I dont play any of the careers mentioned - im playing Mara who has the lowest base Ini in the game ie 123 shared with some tanks and a few others.Where do you suggest i pull RR points from to invest in more parry WS, Melee Crit, FS , Deft Defender?

Scything Talons tactic- increases both init and ws by 160, whatever it is with scaling. Or Corrupted Edge tactic- increases both init and str by 160.

Imperator set- 61 init as set bonus for 2 parts.

Init talis.

Jewelry which increases init.

Likely bb weapons, usually at least some versions have a good init mod.

Etc.

[Farrul]

If the whole server goes ranged dps then the game doesn’t work. Yesterday in ostland had two sides standing at 100ft and any mdps that moved forward got evaporated.

rDPS meta will kill game fast. And it was getting ridiculous all this year, but balance team make it even worse nerfing mdps and buffing ranged. SW got huge buff with crit for both ranged and melee.
Balance team proved that they are not suitable for this work.

Hence what players with some sense left have been saying all along, it is time to improve defences against ranged characters.

Disrupt/dodge strikethrough must be lowered, remove strikethrough from Intelligence/ Ballistics completely. Deft defender even maxed provides almost no defences unless standing behind a shield tank. This should change.

Magic dps casters - especially Shamans, Arch mages, Magus need to be nerfed in how much % damage they penetrate, with no investments these classes penetrate equal or morel to phys classes spending tons of stats in weapons skill, lower their resistance debuffs from 350-370 to 170-180.

Sorc, bW could keep higher penetration since their squishy and cause self harm, they also had crit nerfed a bit recently. these two classes people at least use in organized parties unlike Shamans, Arch mages, Magus who are spamned by solo roamers just zerg surfing and getting easy renown/kills. A disease on this server. ( The same is true for SW & SH, they unlike casters must build WS so nerfing their strikethough is needed).

[Zxul]

If the whole server goes ranged dps then the game doesn’t work. Yesterday in ostland had two sides standing at 100ft and any mdps that moved forward got evaporated.

rDPS meta will kill game fast. And it was getting ridiculous all this year, but balance team make it even worse nerfing mdps and buffing ranged. SW got huge buff with crit for both ranged and melee.
Balance team proved that they are not suitable for this work.

Hence what players with some sense left have been saying all along, it is time to improve defences against ranged characters.

Disrupt/dodge strikethrough must be lowered, remove strikethrough from Intelligence/ Ballistics completely. Deft defender even maxed provides almost no defences unless standing behind a shield tank. This should change.

Magic dps casters - especially Shamans, Arch mages, Magus need to be nerfed in how much % damage they penetrate, with no investments these classes penetrate equal or morel to phys classes spending tons of stats in weapons skill, lower their resistance debuffs from 350-370 to 170-180.

Sorc, bW could keep higher penetration since their squishy and cause self harm, they also had crit nerfed a bit recently. these two classes people at least use in organized parties unlike Shamans, Arch mages, Magus who are spamned by solo roamers just zerg surfing and getting easy renown/kills. A disease on this server. ( The same is true for SW & SH, they unlike casters must build WS so nerfing their strikethough is needed).

Hence what players with some sense left have been saying all along, it is time to improve defences against melee characters.

Parry strikethrough must be lowered, remove strikethrough from str completely. Reflexes even maxed provides almost no defences unless ib buffs your parry. This should change.

Mdps - especially wls, maras, aSWs, need to be nerfed in how much % damage they penetrate, with no investments these classes remove almost completely cloth wearers armor, lower their armor debuffs to 170-180.

Slayer, choppa could keep higher penetration since their squishy, they also were nerfed a bit recently. these two classes people at least use in organized parties unlike wls, maras, aSWs who are spamned by solo roamers just zerg surfing and getting easy renown/kills. A disease on this server.

[tazdingo]

the changes to rp/zeal granted abilities are good, this is what I always hoped for taking things that are never used and giving them a genuine purpose

[Rydiak]

If the whole server goes ranged dps then the game doesn’t work. Yesterday in ostland had two sides standing at 100ft and any mdps that moved forward got evaporated.

rDPS meta will kill game fast. And it was getting ridiculous all this year, but balance team make it even worse nerfing mdps and buffing ranged. SW got huge buff with crit for both ranged and melee.
Balance team proved that they are not suitable for this work.

Hence what players with some sense left have been saying all along, it is time to improve defences against ranged characters.

Disrupt/dodge strikethrough must be lowered, remove strikethrough from Intelligence/ Ballistics completely. Deft defender even maxed provides almost no defences unless standing behind a shield tank. This should change.

Magic dps casters - especially Shamans, Arch mages, Magus need to be nerfed in how much % damage they penetrate, with no investments these classes penetrate equal or morel to phys classes spending tons of stats in weapons skill, lower their resistance debuffs from 350-370 to 170-180.

Sorc, bW could keep higher penetration since their squishy and cause self harm, they also had crit nerfed a bit recently. these two classes people at least use in organized parties unlike Shamans, Arch mages, Magus who are spamned by solo roamers just zerg surfing and getting easy renown/kills. A disease on this server. ( The same is true for SW & SH, they unlike casters must build WS so nerfing their strikethough is needed).

You aren't wrong.

Under the former avoidance formula, "Defense Stat" (Weapon Skill, Initiative, Willpower) was directly checked against "Offense Stat" (Strength, Ballistic Skill, and Intelligence) as such:
DefenseStat/OffenseStat*7.5 = Avoidance gained from Defense Stat
And then flat avoidance bonuses (Parry, Dodge, Disrupt) were added while flat avoidance strikethrough bonuses were subtracted.

This had the downside of a player never really knowing how much avoidance their Defense Stat added because it was directly dependent on how much Offense Stat the attacker had, providing anywhere from 0 to 7.5% avoidance (though it could be estimated by dividing Defense Stat by 140 to act as if Offense Stat was 1050), but it had the upside of Offense Stat being unable to strikethrough the flat avoidance bonuses the player had.
E.g. DefenseStat/OffenseStat*7.5 would equal 0 (or some other low number) and then the flat avoidance and strikethrough bonuses would do their things.

Since January 2024, Offense Stat and Defense Stat now operate individually and function basically as flat strikethrough and avoidance bonuses, respectively. This means that a high Offense Stat can effectively nullify a defending player's entire Defense Stat and flat avoidance bonuses if they aren't high enough.

A simple way the devs could fix this is by including an IF( statement in the formula such that if the strikethrough provided by Offense Stat reduces the avoidance provided by Defense Stat below zero that it would instead equal zero before the remaining bonuses (avoidance and strikethrough) are added to the equation.

This would of course carry the downside of not being immediately clear to players that the strikethrough provided by their Offense Stat cannot reduce avoidance bonuses (that part of the equation would be floored at 0, instead of allowing negative numbers) but the overall formula would function more akin to how Live and RoR functioned for years while still allowing Defense Stat tooltips to provide accurate avoidance numbers (eg uncoupled from Offense Stat).

[BelligerentBob]

Swirling Vortex should be changed so that the cooldown reduction affects the party members in addition to your own, otherwise, it doesnt really have a slot on a Zealot loadout

[CountTalabecland]

I hope they can revert back to an older version before this madness goes on for too long.

I think Morrowind said it best for the devs:

“Restore a saved game to restore the weave of fate, or persist in the doomed world you have created.”

[what63]

If the whole server goes ranged dps then the game doesn’t work. Yesterday in ostland had two sides standing at 100ft and any mdps that moved forward got evaporated.

rDPS meta will kill game fast. And it was getting ridiculous all this year, but balance team make it even worse nerfing mdps and buffing ranged. SW got huge buff with crit for both ranged and melee.
Balance team proved that they are not suitable for this work.

Hence what players with some sense left have been saying all along, it is time to improve defences against ranged characters.

Disrupt/dodge strikethrough must be lowered, remove strikethrough from Intelligence/ Ballistics completely. Deft defender even maxed provides almost no defences unless standing behind a shield tank. This should change.

Magic dps casters - especially Shamans, Arch mages, Magus need to be nerfed in how much % damage they penetrate, with no investments these classes penetrate equal or morel to phys classes spending tons of stats in weapons skill, lower their resistance debuffs from 350-370 to 170-180.

Sorc, bW could keep higher penetration since their squishy and cause self harm, they also had crit nerfed a bit recently. these two classes people at least use in organized parties unlike Shamans, Arch mages, Magus who are spamned by solo roamers just zerg surfing and getting easy renown/kills. A disease on this server. ( The same is true for SW & SH, they unlike casters must build WS so nerfing their strikethough is needed).

You aren't wrong.

Under the former avoidance formula, "Defense Stat" (Weapon Skill, Initiative, Willpower) was directly checked against "Offense Stat" (Strength, Ballistic Skill, and Intelligence) as such:
DefenseStat/OffenseStat*7.5 = Avoidance gained from Defense Stat
And then flat avoidance bonuses (Parry, Dodge, Disrupt) were added while flat avoidance strikethrough bonuses were subtracted.

This had the downside of a player never really knowing how much avoidance their Defense Stat added because it was directly dependent on how much Offense Stat the attacker had, providing anywhere from 0 to 7.5% avoidance (though it could be estimated by dividing Defense Stat by 140 to act as if Offense Stat was 1050), but it had the upside of Offense Stat being unable to strikethrough the flat avoidance bonuses the player had.
E.g. DefenseStat/OffenseStat*7.5 would equal 0 (or some other low number) and then the flat avoidance and strikethrough bonuses would do their things.

Since January 2024, Offense Stat and Defense Stat now operate individually and function basically as flat strikethrough and avoidance bonuses, respectively. This means that a high Offense Stat can effectively nullify a defending player's entire Defense Stat and flat avoidance bonuses if they aren't high enough.

A simple way the devs could fix this is by including an IF( statement in the formula such that if the strikethrough provided by Offense Stat reduces the avoidance provided by Defense Stat below zero that it would instead equal zero before the remaining bonuses (avoidance and strikethrough) are added to the equation.

This would of course carry the downside of not being immediately clear to players that the strikethrough provided by their Offense Stat cannot reduce avoidance bonuses (that part of the equation would be floored at 0, instead of allowing negative numbers) but the overall formula would function more akin to how Live and RoR functioned for years while still allowing Defense Stat tooltips to provide accurate avoidance numbers (eg uncoupled from Offense Stat).

Just to clarify- LIVE did not operate under a formula that separated stat contested avoidance from other sources. The live formula had even more aggressive effective strikethrough.

Add: I honetly completely forgot what was what over the years, and cannot for the life of me find the clean mechanics for any of this. But to the best of my recollection, there wasn't just a contested avoidance portion. There was also a contested strikethrough portion aswell. The idea behind the changed RoR formula was for contested strikethrough to not leak past parry from WS for example, and completely wipe out renown investment along with any parry buffs/tactics when softcapped. I could be entirely wrong, but this should reflect the live logic and why the formula was ever changed. Think strikethrough in ranges multiple times over what they are right now.

Add2: Definitely in part remembering stuff from around 2018 experiments re the above. Cannot find any specifics apart from vaguely worded posts.

[Rydiak]

*Snip*

Add2: Definitely in part remembering stuff from around 2018 experiments re the above. Cannot find any specifics apart from vaguely worded posts.

You are in luck then! Check out my Damage Calculator link in my signature and then go to Avoidance Calculator. I have every avoidance formula used by this server chronicled there, including both a comparison of all the formulas against each other as well as the patch notes for each of the changes.

[Speedyluck]

revert GTDC cooldown, revert the choppa/SL nerf that forced to spec and slot a tactic just to aoe, this ranged nonsense will be over.