[Warrior Priest] - Grace

[ThePollie]

Most of the players wanting these changes are arguing for a possible 6 man group that could consist of 3 dps, 2 healers and 2 tanks. Do you see anything wrong here?

Just with your math.

[Simmox]

Intimidating repent should be at the first tactic slot in the wrath tree.

divine mend used to be divine strike,changed in live after a furore of the lack of a big heal for the WP
i preffered Divine strike.

my main issue with the WP is it has no defense against knockdowns and stuns,which leads to permastun/death .when resolute defense was an option you could at least avoid the inevitable for a small time.

im glad the subject is being discussed ,good work

[peterthepan3]

AOE Detaunt should be given to 2h WP - wrath or grace - and not cost a tactic slot. Considering ugly predicament class finds itself in, i.e. that of a melee hybrid without much damage nor survivability.

[ThePollie]

Intimidating repent should be at the first tactic slot in the wrath tree.

divine mend used to be divine strike,changed in live after a furore of the lack of a big heal for the WP
i preffered Divine strike.

my main issue with the WP is it has no defense against knockdowns and stuns,which leads to permastun/death .when resolute defense was an option you could at least avoid the inevitable for a small time.

im glad the subject is being discussed ,good work

divine strike change moved melee healing firmly into late t3/early t4 for sure, seemed rather mean to me.

I believe we're alright with Divine Mend over Divine Strike. We already have Sigmar's Radiance and Divine Assault, the problem lies in how easily either are mitigated.

Attack a target with Sigmar's Radiance and deal about 500 damage. It's guarded, so make that 250. Make it about 150 after armour digs into it, down to 135 or so after toughness. Now cut it in half again, to 65 or so, because Radiance by default only heals for 50% damage dealt. At the end, your heal-per-strike comes to about 65 + the 300 base heal.

It's better with the tactic, upgrading the %heal to 75% and changing the 65 for about 100, but not by a lot.

Personally, I don't believe the base heal needs buffed. I think it's alright. The problem lies in just how many things impact the heal-per-damage%, even before getting to the fact only half of what is done matters. As stated before, changing the damage from physical to spirit damage and making the 75% lifetap baseline would do a lot to help the ability.

[Simmox]

Intimidating repent should be at the first tactic slot in the wrath tree.

divine mend used to be divine strike,changed in live after a furore of the lack of a big heal for the WP
i preffered Divine strike.

my main issue with the WP is it has no defense against knockdowns and stuns,which leads to permastun/death .when resolute defense was an option you could at least avoid the inevitable for a small time.

im glad the subject is being discussed ,good work

divine strike change moved melee healing firmly into late t3/early t4 for sure, seemed rather mean to me.

I believe we're alright with Divine Mend over Divine Strike. We already have Sigmar's Radiance and Divine Assault, the problem lies in how easily either are mitigated.

Attack a target with Sigmar's Radiance and deal about 500 damage. It's guarded, so make that 250. Make it about 150 after armour digs into it, down to 135 or so after toughness. Now cut it in half again, to 65 or so, because Radiance by default only heals for 50% damage dealt. At the end, your heal-per-strike comes to about 65 + the 300 base heal.

It's better with the tactic, upgrading the %heal to 75% and changing the 65 for about 100, but not by a lot.

Personally, I don't believe the base heal needs buffed. I think it's alright. The problem lies in just how many things impact the heal-per-damage%, even before getting to the fact only half of what is done matters. As stated before, changing the damage from physical to spirit damage and making the 75% lifetap baseline would do a lot to help the ability.

well this is kinda the point i was making the third melee heal is justified for DPS and Salvation
Divine Strike also originally benefited from tactic Grace of Sigmar as did/does Sigmars radiance
the Original Tactic was thus
Grace of SIgmar-Increase heal return to 150% for divine strike and 100% for Sigmars radiance
originally in live,
Divine strike healed the defensive target AND all allies with 10ft
Sigmars Radiance healed for 50% of damage caused to self and allies within 30ft,

Now,i would like to have considered Divine Shock to be available at lvl 30 instead of 40
this will give the WP a chance to avoid or mitgate the bum rush and permastun/death
with good timing you should be able to thin the attack
Divine Shock-Enemies in the AE are knocked back (medium). Arc: 180, radius 30ft, 60sec cooldown

on a side note about survivability
the Squig Herders pets cannot be avoided,they shoot through cover and terrain
they can shoot you when you have no LOS to the squig
its free damage and has few counters.

[Sigimund]

There's decent support among people inside and outside of the staff for AoE detaunt from a 2 handed weapon, but the question that would need to be asked is whether melee DoK should get it when dual wielding blades.

DoKs should be looked at separately. As per that magical future change thread - it must be understood by the community that some changes will break or unbalance classes until we can bring the others up to speed, and complaints about it will be ignored. There's simply no other way to address class changes with the proper degree of focus and testing.

My first instinct is that if DoKs are supposed to be melee healers they will need the same or a very similar package of changes. On the other hand, detaunt also benefits DPS/utility builds and DoKs are ahead there. Until other changes arrive this might even be seen as reducing that difference in performance.

So perhaps as each change stabilises it can be considered and replicated to the DoK so that they are only 1-2 changes behind at any stage?

[ThePollie]

well this is kinda the point i was making the third melee heal is justified for DPS and Salvation
Divine Strike also originally benefited from tactic Grace of Sigmar as did/does Sigmars radiance
the Original Tactic was thus
Grace of SIgmar-Increase heal return to 150% for divine strike and 100% for Sigmars radiance
originally in live,
Divine strike healed the defensive target AND all allies with 10ft
Sigmars Radiance healed for 50% of damage caused to self and allies within 30ft,
Except we don't particularly need a third heal when we can simply fix the first. Though I'm fond of the idea of a burst-damage single-target attack with a large heal attached to it, Divine Assault largely fills that role already, albeit easily interrupted and not exactly quick.

Now,i would like to have considered Divine Shock to be available at lvl 30 instead of 40
this will give the WP a chance to avoid or mitgate the bum rush and permastun/death
with good timing you should be able to thin the attack
Divine Shock-Enemies in the AE are knocked back (medium). Arc: 180, radius 30ft, 60sec cooldown
I'd honestly rather a way to close the distance, not make more of it. Even then, what's to stop them from just running straight after our primary healer or back at me after I've done this? Now they have immunity.

[Deadpoet]

Just a doubt: I assume when we talk about AoE detaunt without needing the tactic we mean working just like the tactic tooltip says, right? For a moment I feared 2hander WP was going to be like a normal mdps detaunt but with 100percent uptime. My fear was losing the 100ft range of detaunt, which would mean the final death sentence for WP against ranged classes. Or do I have reason to fear?

[Simmox]

imo all that is required is to,
Include the Original Divine strike as an option
Divine shock at 30
Intimidating repent lowered to slot 1 in the wrath tree
Divine mend could also remain as it WP based
whereas melee heals are str/ws based.

Remember in the early days of Live,the WP was excellent
there was no KOTBS or BG,Choppa and Slayers.IB/WP combo was considered desirable.

Once the big DPS trains appeared Permanstun/death became a real issue and slowly forced the WP to become a back line healer preference.

[ThePollie]

imo all that is required is to,
Include the Original Divine strike as an option
I personally think we have enough healing abilities. Once Sigmar's Shield is fixed, I'll be perfectly content with it.
Divine shock at 30
I don't agree.
Intimidating repent lowered to slot 1 in the wrath tree
I definitely do not agree. Giving Salvation not only another potent form of defense, while making it even cheaper to boot, isn't something I'll condone.
Divine mend could also remain as it WP based
whereas melee heals are str/ws based.
So no changes, then.


Remember in the early days of Live,the WP was excellent
there was no KOTBS or BG,Choppa and Slayers.IB/WP combo was considered desirable.

Once the big DPS trains appeared Permanstun/death became a real issue and slowly forced the WP to become a back line healer preference.
I wouldn't mind WPs being given Juggernaut, I'm just concerned with how to balance Salvation having it.