[Suggestion] Change to Shatter Limbs

[Nanji]

Uh ... I was talking about direct damage, not dots.

Classes are debuff reliant because of healing. If there is little healing, there is no need for debuffs.

Sw needs debuffs to kill, bw too, slayer needs hd, engi does decent dmg without debuffs????

I dont see how you want to kill a target with just raw dmg against 100% healing.

[Tesq]

Uh ... I was talking about direct damage, not dots.

Classes are debuff reliant because of healing. If there is little healing, there is no need for debuffs.

Sw needs debuffs to kill, bw too, slayer needs hd, engi does decent dmg without debuffs????

I dont see how you want to kill a target with just raw dmg against 100% healing.

there are no heals when doks are cleasing......... i don't see how you don't get the point, you can't do both at the same times it was pretty clear in his post. That's just badder when you get CD increased and your cleanse have 10 seconds and you can litteraly do nothing like exemple aoe heal with a CD of 6.5 seconds (dok) UNLESS you have a choppa in party, for every party, and you are lucky enough to finish the inc before those 20 seconds pass, which mean 1 wb is better than the other and they are not a equal match anyway.

[Annaise16]

Uh ... I was talking about direct damage, not dots.

Classes are debuff reliant because of healing. If there is little healing, there is no need for debuffs.

Sw needs debuffs to kill, bw too, slayer needs hd, engi does decent dmg without debuffs????

I dont see how you want to kill a target with just raw dmg against 100% healing.

If the healers are cleansing every second gcd, as you seem to have them doing in order to take advantage of the choppa buff, they will not be healing at 100%. They will be healing at well under 100% of normal because of all the extra cleansing they are doing. The extra gcds spent cleansing act like a self imposed outgoing-heal debuff.

You were writing about wb vs wb fights. There are plenty of dps abilities that do not rely on dots. If it is a wb vs wb fight, there will be plenty of classes using those direct damage abilities while your healers are effectively debuffing their own healing if they are over-using cleanse.

I used to play a RP and I often used the cleanse tactic that removed the cd on the ability. And while there were many situations, especially in small scale fights, where cleansing was more useful than healing, in large scale fights where most of the group is taking damage, cleansing is used less often because there is a much greater need for healing.

[Tesq]

Uh ... I was talking about direct damage, not dots.

Classes are debuff reliant because of healing. If there is little healing, there is no need for debuffs.

Sw needs debuffs to kill, bw too, slayer needs hd, engi does decent dmg without debuffs????

I dont see how you want to kill a target with just raw dmg against 100% healing.

If the healers are cleansing every second gcd, as you seem to have them doing in order to take advantage of the choppa buff, they will not be healing at 100%. They will be healing at well under 100% of normal because of all the extra cleansing they are doing. The extra gcds spent cleansing act like a self imposed outgoing-heal debuff.

You were writing about wb vs wb fights. There are plenty of dps abilities that do not rely on dots. If it is a wb vs wb fight, there will be plenty of classes using those direct damage abilities while your healers are effectively debuffing their own healing if they are over-using cleanse.

I used to play a RP and I often used the cleanse tactic that removed the cd on the ability. And while there were many situations, especially in small scale fights, where cleansing was more useful than healing, in large scale fights where most of the group is taking damage, cleansing is used less often because there is a much greater need for healing.

or also said you cant cleanse effectively so you just dont cleanse you just spam heals which is not possible if and when you have a cd increase to cleanse in those 20+ dot/debuff on you/other.

[Nanji]

Your logic is flawed. 1 gcd equals 1 gcd. Use debuff get cleansed. Use dmg ability get outhealed.
It is a purely theoretical discussion, in "reality" both side will do a bit of both. In the end you try to kill a target without important debuffs like boiling blood, hd or SL on your side.
For the first 20s.
With equal skill the order grp will be pressured 20s while destro is in charge, hard to come back from this.

[Soulcheg]

I think you can add Tesq in your signature, right next to Penril.

[Nanji]

I think you can add Tesq in your signature, right next to Penril.

There are lines you just dont cross sry.
It would be like making fun of a guy in a wheelchair

What about #PrayForDestro? your idea wasnt it?

[Soulcheg]

Yeah.

[Tesq]

Your logic is flawed. 1 gcd equals 1 gcd. Use debuff get cleansed. Use dmg ability get outhealed.
It is a purely theoretical discussion, in "reality" both side will do a bit of both. In the end you try to kill a target without important debuffs like boiling blood, hd or SL on your side.
For the first 20s.
With equal skill the order grp will be pressured 20s while destro is in charge, hard to come back from this.

wrong you NEED to have 1 choppa in 1 party to do that , you make it sounds like it's all the wb doing that, which is not right and also

with EQUAL SKILL you can probably have 1 slayer x our choppa (most likely due to ID spam) which will counter our 20 sec, negate bonus each other.

after THOSE 20 SEC if none have won which is exatly what happen 100% of the time in city istances, multiple warbands or siege "like" (not keep ) fights and happened also pre 1.4.0 when 1 wb vs 1 w and 3hit slayer combo was still nto around. Order have shatter limbs active 100% of time while destru can't defend itself appart only by positioning and prekiting, which make desrtu dps a crap due the presence in the front line of shatter limbs or even worst if slayers arrive to SL backline.
When you alredy have 3 dot to cleanse and nothing work as intend due to coldown increase and enemy can just push cos both your heals and both your damage are cripple it's not challanging as some may say , it's just a slaughter.

[magter3001]

Wingz is correct on how debuffs and cleanses work in 6v6 situations. Problem is, Tesq is arguing city sieges where it was 24v24 (usually empty instances ) while Wingz is arguing competitive 6v6 (not amateur hour)

Both of you will never convince the other of anything so y'all might as well drop it