[DISCUSSION] RVR - likes/dislikes/possible improvement?

[Tamarlan]

Everyone complaining about 6mans "farming" gear and getting duplicates while you sit there empty handed... you're doing it wrong, they're doing it right. For lack of better phrasing, l2p.

Under the current ruleset you are absolutely right. Still I dont give up hoping that ORVR will be eventually about warbands. Reward system of scenarios are made for groups; ORVR shall reward warbands.

[th3gatekeeper]

Everyone complaining about 6mans "farming" gear and getting duplicates while you sit there empty handed... you're doing it wrong, they're doing it right. For lack of better phrasing, l2p.

True, however isnt that what this thread is about? Asking what people like/dislike in the game. The "carrot" of gear only lasts so long... Then you have it. Then what? The current mechanics (atleast for me) are largely unappealing. I used to LOVE RVR - especially back in T3 when that was the "max". Had some really amazing times in warbands back then with some truly epic fights...

Today, it just feels VERY boring. Warbands running around capping BOs, zero "Defending" BOs going on. Parties competing over supplies and "who gets it" for contribution. You largely feel like you are playing against your own realm... not playing against the other side.

If the goal is gear - there are ways to shortcut this... Get on during NA times when a warband for Order is running around (if you are DEstro) and run around capping BOs with me with 400% AAO and see very little combat. Youll get top 10 contribution, of about 20 destro players even doing anything and have a shot at some loot. For me, thats RVR now... The "goal" is merely RNG chance at loot. not "epic battles" because I personally feel they dont really exist anymore. Or if they do, they are rare and take FAR too much time for me to commit to... Go back 10+ years when I was in college and sure, I could and would LOVE to sit down at my PC for 4 hours or 6 hours and stop a zone from locking just because I didnt want the other side to lock it!

Now, with family and a job where I work 50+ hours a week... Im lucky to get an hour of uninterrupted game time or even 2 hours on a weekend...

Anyways, point being. I think you should reward the behaviour you want to see.

Right now, there is inner warband competition. People choosing to NOT be in warbands or parties to kill steal and 6 mans running around trying to "max contribution" rather than trying to actually fight the enemy... I see zero "defense" on BOs because its largely better to cap and leave for the next one then try and stick around and fend off attackers. I see people completely "giving up" fighting and merely "farm contribution" after a lord is killed and actually intentionally LET the other side win - because they want the zone lock rewards.

None of that sounds like "fun" to me... remove the "rewards" and RVR dies... Thats the problem I see. The "carrot" is the only thing keeping people interested in it, which means its not sustainable.

[th3gatekeeper]

I hate posting after being the last one to post... but had a REALLY frustrating experience last night in RVR.

Order zerg going around, they lock TM, so we head over to CW to be one of the first Destro to snag a BO. We do, and order does immediately as well. Get ready for battle! I was pumped.

Turns out though, all the order zerg logged. So we sat in CW capping BOs doing supplies when it was ~ 12 on 14 or so (we had 12).

We started to gain traction and order pop started to log off (was late NA times). After about 60-90 minutes, we controlled 80% of the zone, we had about 18 people online, it was looking good! Versus about 10 order.

We start to rally the troops, make a PUG warband, get our keep ranked up (I think it was lvl 2 maxed out, cant remember) After about 120 minutes, we had a full warband AND 1-2 6 man roaming groups. The outer door was getting low when.....

About 12-15 of our Destru players logged to Order, cutting our numbers in ~half, and giving US 20% AAO.... They destroyed our Ram, TWICE, DEstru warband leader disbanded the group.

This was about 150 minutes in. In zone we all chatted "give it 10 min, its late NA times, order will log and we will retake". So whoever was left went to IC, or sat in warcamp. 10 minutes go by, not only did order log, so did destru.
After over 3 hours of play, we were back to 50-50 control, and about a 10 on 10. Zone going nowhere.


What was posted in /t4 the entire time:
"this is Fing stupid"
"Stupid Xrealm ruining it"
"they need to put a time limit on zone, etc"
"they ruined RVR"

Etc. etc. 100% negative/frustrating etc.

Now, I am NOT writing this to say those things myself, but merely, it was a MISERABLE 3 hours of play that had me largely questioning why I play ROR.



I really think something needs to be done. I really think some sort of "points earned" towards a lock. Heck even a GM was talking in our group (ill leave names out) saying "I think you can lock the zone without the Keep Lord". I had to say "no, it stops at 80%".

Which makes me wonder.... Why.... Maybe it SHOULDNT stop at 80%. If you can get it to tick to 100% without a keep Lord, why cant that lock the zone?

I also am further convinced the contribution roll bonus system we have now, is ONE of the problems..... And I dont have a clear solution to this BUT, cant help but feel like one of the reasons yo use Xrealming is because players will log on for Destru (for instance) and realize they are going to come very far down the totem pole with regards to contribution. So they swap sides because they now get AAO and will be 1 of a small # to participate in defensive tick (less people). However this clearly wont solve ALL the Xrealm, some people just dont care about rewards and want to just stop zone locks and play the "underdog".

What makes this worse is the current contribution system pits player against eachother. We had 6 people MOST of last night but did add a 7th into our group who I could tell was getting upset that our group was the one running supplies. Because he didnt benefit from it. That, and there was a solo Mara who ALL he did was run supplies solo... to try and max his contribution. Rather than help the team....

I even hate to bring this up again, because Wargrimmer already responded, but I think ALLLLL of this stems from the "all or nothing" RNG bag system we have now.

If you dont get a top finishing spot, its likely you wont get a top 3-4 finish, which means its likely you wont get a purple/gold bag (the only ones people really care about, maybe blue too) which all means 3 hours of time is wasted (minus low drop % of medallions + renown you got).


I guess WHY I bring all this up, is this is what I dislike about RVR:
- no "time" limit.
- only 1 "path" to victory (kill Lord then 100%, no other options).
- Xrealm can completely kill momentum
- Contribution system promotes selfish play over "warband play".
- Loot system (bags) is too much "all or nothing".

I dont want to propose a ton of plans, but basically what I think MIGHT be good things to counter all these:

- allow a zone to lock by ticking to 100% (regardless of Keep). The advantage of taking the Keep is you no longer lose %, while you could with the BO battle... But win the BO battle long enough and you lock the zone?

- This solves #2, by providing multiple paths to victory.

- Possibly look at a 10 minute "debuff" when you enter an RVR lake, you will not earn contribution until you participate in a capture of a BO. This prevents Xrealm from happening JUST for the keep? Maybe? This might not be a good idea due to solo/roam type stuff... IDk. Just ONE idea.

- Contribution for anything should be warband wide. Supplies ESPECIALLY. I would even go as far as to say, if you are in the RVR lake while one of your allies captures a BO, you get credit. If you are in the lake, when a BO locks, or supplies are turned in. ANYTHING... Gives you credit for all that stuff. So it promotes warband wide, zone wide tactics where you dont feel like "I have to rush to XXX BO for the tick" or... "quick lets go try cap XXX BO so our 6 man gets the contribution".

- Loot Bags.... I still dont get this "RNG or Die trying" mentality. I really think that doing something LIKE: Gold Bags: random piece of gear as well as random piece of Genesis, AND Subjugator. So its your choice. It would still be RNG. But Gold means = RNG at any 1 piece of gear (your choice of the three). Not that you will have a list of ALL the pieces, but it will RNG 1 piece of gear, RNG 1 piece of Genesis, and RNG 1 piece of Subjugator.

Purple - White: Medallions. Pure and simple. Maybe Purple = 50. Blue = 25. Green =15. White = 5. Something like this. THEN... Allow people to buy Subjugator/Genesis pieces with medallions. Make them cost a GOOD amount. Heck, you could make a Subjugator weapon cost 1000... Could make each/any Genesis piece cost 500. It doesnt matter, but it would encourage people to play together, to do RVR for more than just "RNG".

If you think "people will just grind it out" well... people ALREADY do this in 6 mans and you underestimate how much people will play their mains as well as alts. Many players have ruled out these items as even obtainable due to RNG which is also why (Ive talked to MANY) they dont even bother trying in RVR and is also why you see people doing SCs while in RVR lakes.... Because they see RVR as a "long shot RNG for gear so why not" and the main attraction for them is just Queing for SCs in RVR...


Anyways.... I love the game, have a deep desire for it to prosper, but I feel obligated to give this feedback. I do very much appreciate the time you all spend on this game. I only wish to make it better. Cheers!

[Daknallbomb]

Lock without getting keep? Sry But are you crazy? Noone rly noone will attack it ever If you can lock a zone without getting a keep! Exspecialy of one side has greater Pop they Snack bos def it and wait. There will not be a Single keep Fight

[th3gatekeeper]

Lock without getting keep? Sry But are you crazy? Noone rly noone will attack it ever If you can lock a zone without getting a keep! Exspecialy of one side has greater Pop they Snack bos def it and wait. There will not be a Single keep Fight

YA, Maybe I am crazy. So if you believe this is the case... adopt my proposal on the bag/loot system and then restrict gold bags for Keep/Lord Kills only.

So a BO lock will provide only purple or lower bags (medallions - used to purchase items) where as Gold bags are only obtainable if you DO the Keep. There are many ways to "modify" things to allow this...

Providing 2 "Avenues" to lock a zone I think is ideal.

Or... (something I have proposed before) is if a side DOES get to 100% zone control via BOs, it makes taking the Keep much easier. So on this type of system. You have two paths.

- get supplies, go for keep take FIRST, then grab BOs for the finish.
OR
- get BOs to 100% FIRST, then grab supplies and take the keep.

You would have to modify things such as (if you get to 100% it locks all BOs for X minutes, ranks you keep up, blah blah.)


All I am saying is the current "formula" for RVR stinks. And its not just me that says this, its a widely held view.

out of my entire wall-of-text I like how that is the ONLY thing you responded with. Great constructive post

[Daknallbomb]

It was the only Thing cause i like The Rest

[trebla]

Contribution system promotes selfish play over "warband play".

This times 100.

[Acidic]

Contribution system promotes selfish play over "warband play".

This times 100.

Sounds like a PQ , oh it is
PVE mechanics rewarding PVP , not sounding good to me
I say rewarding pvp as the conq drops mechanism is not a good example of pvp rewarding (killing blow , low drop rate , RNG and very high cost)which leave ppl looking how to get a decent return so bags discution become significant as alternatives are worse

[altharion1]

Those pug warbands of 21 dps, 2 healers and 1 tank do all the work locking zones.

6mans do nothing but gank soloers. That's how they get gold bags.

[Aurandilaz]

Those pug warbands of 21 dps, 2 healers and 1 tank do all the work locking zones.

6mans do nothing but gank soloers. That's how they get gold bags.

not true, I've seen boisbands hide behind warbands so they can kill even kill enemy duo-groups.
Occasionally I've noticed some of them taking part in wb vs wb fights, provided there is enough pugmeatshield available.