Return of Reckoning

Nekkma wrote:

Morbidmind wrote:Can an unskilled player even take advantage of NB?

I kind of doubt it. As usual the ones with best knowledge of the game get the most use out of it.

Yeah exactly. I'm not sure where these posts about it raising the skill floor for new players is coming from. Maybe if someone who knows the game sets up their strings for them.

Regardless of who is using it the skill gap in the game will increase which is imo a good a thing.

Whether it is veteran playing playing at a high level who have to re learn and adjust who fall off a bit, or new playing using someone elses strings etc...

I assure everyone that the good players using it that kill you right now will still be killing you after it's removed. Go ahead and remove it.

The question is what will be the next excuse for people dying... /assist?

Again implying that anyone with a problem with the addon is salty about being killed, and not that we think partially automating gameplay is fundamentally cheating.

I just find arguments to keep the addon in game quite silly. Everyone in favor of the addon dis saying that NB does not give huge advantage over people that do not use it but they still say that they will quit the server or make an uproar if it is disabled or removed which is quite a lovely response for something so "minor".....

Addon makes you ignore looking at buffs/debuffs and positioning as it will chose best outcome for the player. Who is playing the game then cause it does not look like it is the player.

roadkillrobin wrote:Disable mods completly or allow them all. Guess what. Allowing every addon is by far the moast equal of these options as there are NO mods that are availible to just some players.

That just seems like a re-hash of "everyone can use it so it's fine". As already pointed out, you can extend that reasoning to any possible addon, regardless of how absurd and game-changing it might be, so it's not really a convincing argument in itself. The difference(s) between NB and other other addons has (have) also been highlighted, and even if other addons were considered problematic (e.g. if there is/were one that emulates NB's conditionals), I don't see any reason they couldn't also be removed if possible.

roadkillrobin wrote:The argument that NB eliminates mistakes is just BS as theres no kinda attack chain that optimal for every situation. A skilled player that react to its enviroment instead of relying on a preset abillity chain is gonna preform better anyway. That makes puting resources into disabling a addon that gives NO Advantages over a good player completly wasted. Focus on correcting gamebreaking bugs like the warband UI dissapearence in Keep Seiges instead.

Agreed that it doesn't eliminate all mistakes all the time, but 1) that's not the main argument against it as far as I can see; 2) it does remove or greatly reduce the relevance of human error (see below), which is actually often what decides (close) fights in this game.

Even taking into account the problems that it can cause (usually due to bad/inadequate checks and programming), I imagine the benefits (inc. but ofc not limited to: far more efficient use of positionals/not wasting ap on them, not wasting cc, insta potting, instantly using important abilities before you've even consciously realised that you should, not wasting ap/gcd to apply unneeded ability effects [say, based on archetype, or if effect is already present] etc etc), far outweigh, on average, those possible instances where it has a -ve effect. And that's not considering the benefits that ability chains themselves provide, simply by reducing the number of buttons needed.

Azarael has already addressed the point about the devs' time.

peterthepan3 wrote:couldn't care less if NB were removed tbh. and a lot of competitive players use NB (esp. maras, bgs, slayers, choppas). however even without NB these players would still remain as competitive/skilled so you have to ascertain whether or not it is even worth it (i'm assuming op calls for nb's removal from a specific perspective)

In most cases, they'd almost certainly (imo) remain among the most competitive players, but I disagree that they'd be as competitive, at the very least not without some adjustment period - although I'd argue that it's impossible to be as seemingly consistently good/reliable without a well-programmed NB.

Edit:

hulkhug wrote:I just find arguments to keep the addon in game quite silly. Everyone in favor of the addon dis saying that NB does not give huge advantage over people that do not use it but they still say that they will quit the server or make an uproar if it is disabled or removed which is quite a lovely response for something so "minor".....

Yep it's funny, and you see exactly the same thing when class balance is discussed: "X aspect that affects my class isn't OP, but DON'T YOU DARE TOUCH IT!!" I'm not implying that that's true of everyone who might oppose NB's removal, but it clearly is of some.

Zealote wrote: That just seems like a re-hash of "everyone can use it so it's fine". As already pointed out, you can extend that reasoning to any possible addon, regardless of how absurd and game-changing it might be, so it's not really a convincing argument in itself.

Indeed, it is not an argument on the principal level whether NB should be allowed or not. However, it completely kills the argument against NB that it provides an "unfair advantage". Every single addon I use is to enhance my performance and provide me with an advantage. Try play the game without any addons and then tell me if addons does not provide an advantage.

Just as input:

Guess Zealote istn't refering to 'Addons shouldn't give advantages at all', more 'They shouldn't give special advantages, outside of the ability of a player'.

I love the range-indicator for my guard from enemy, for example. It does enable me to check for my surrounding, instead of permanently checking if my guarded target did sneak away, outside the 30ft-range.
But at the same time it won't make me move towards him, so I'll always stay in range, for example.

I agree, there is a difference in 'changing visibility of information' over 'Let a system check something the player would have to decide otherwise'.

I just don't think it would benefit the server more, to disable NB, than it would hurt him. That's all.

I'm playing currently with 0 addon's enabled. Is anyone as hardcore as I?

Are people really defending NB? l o l. I have used it on every toon that I have created and it probably would be slightly annoying if they disabled it. But I wouldn't come to this thread and tell others it doesn't give me an advantage because it does, lolol. Also, major lol at the people who compare crafting addons to NB, I mean...seriously?

Will better players still kill you? probably. That doesn't justify how silly the add-on has always been (since the day it was introduced).