Shaman builds, RR, etc.

[Azarael]

So you trying to give more life to hybrid build?

I would love to see this to be viable options to play.

The current set of mechanic changes were based around the following principles:

- Minimal changes to implementation of existing skills. Changes are driven by mechanic.
- Supporting primarily heal-favouring and mixed builds.
- Respecting as much as possible the original intent of the mechanic.
- Improving potential to heal allies while being forced to kite.
- Working to reduce 1on1 potential where possible.

The changeset looks like this at the moment:

The bonuses received by abilities from the career mechanic are now implemented in the following manner:

• + Only one mechanic point is consumed, rather than all points.
• + Bonus stat contribution is derived from a factor of your total bonus stats from items, if this would exceed the contribution from the ability's normal scaling stat. Reduced stat contribution works as normal.
• + The cast level is always equal to your own level.
• - Your healing received from any ability receiving a mechanic bonus is reduced by 75%.

For instant cast abilities:

• + Effectiveness increases by 25%.

For all cast time abilities:

• + The cast time is reduced by 40%.

For non-lifetap cast time abilities:

• + The AP cost is reduced by 40%.

For lifetap cast time abilities:

• + These abilities can be cast while moving.
• + The healing value is 350% of the damage dealt.
• - Stat contribution is removed.

Please note that these modifications will only apply only when an ability consumes a mechanic point.

This is not available for general use on live, and is currently assigned to a toggle command. If I were to make the changeset available for general testing / use, I would assign it to an item which would allow players to toggle.

[Kali14]

This change will make the AOE heal partially instant, and with Tranquility - powerful. In my opinion it is much better than twist the stick 3 seconds. Now I am using Bleessing of Isha only with Focused Mind. The rest of time my party dies when I do this AOE.

Well WP and RP are "good" in heals of time. Only weird when I was in WB and I was only 1 healer in my party and I ONLY spam all the time Blessing of Isha, people from my party even wasn't danger to die. And in parties with 2xWP or RP/WP people die all the time. This same I feel now when play as slayer. If my healer is RP or WP with their crap heals of time I must waiting for some small heals. And when I get them they are usually too small to protect me because in this same time I got more damages than heals. With AM in Ruin set I may forget about everything because with his tactic +40% stronger heals when I'm under 25% hp I never die because in 1 second AM can restore me even 2900 hp from blessing of isha. And AM still can use next tactic for another +35% heals on different players and -15% on himself. AM hybride is not healer, it's another version AM dps. Here you have reason why your heals were bad.

[roadkillrobin]

So you trying to give more life to hybrid build?

I would love to see this to be viable options to play.

The current set of mechanic changes were based around the following principles:

- Minimal changes to implementation of existing skills. Changes are driven by mechanic.
- Supporting primarily heal-favouring and mixed builds.
- Respecting as much as possible the original intent of the mechanic.
- Improving potential to heal allies while being forced to kite.
- Working to reduce 1on1 potential where possible.

The changeset looks like this at the moment:

The bonuses received by abilities from the career mechanic are now implemented in the following manner:

• + Only one mechanic point is consumed, rather than all points.
• + Bonus stat contribution is derived from a factor of your total bonus stats from items, if this would exceed the contribution from the ability's normal scaling stat. Reduced stat contribution works as normal.
• + The cast level is always equal to your own level.
• - Your healing received from any ability receiving a mechanic bonus is reduced by 75%.

For instant cast abilities:

• + Effectiveness increases by 25%.

For all cast time abilities:

• + The cast time is reduced by 40%.

For non-lifetap cast time abilities:

• + The AP cost is reduced by 40%.

For lifetap cast time abilities:

• + These abilities can be cast while moving.
• + The healing value is 350% of the damage dealt.
• - Stat contribution is removed.

Please note that these modifications will only apply only when an ability consumes a mechanic point.

This is not available for general use on live, and is currently assigned to a toggle command. If I were to make the changeset available for general testing / use, I would assign it to an item which would allow players to toggle.

So what i get from this is: Basicly no changes to healing Shamans/AM????

[footpatrol2]

@azareal
Ok so.. your sayin all I need to get a instant cast brain bursta is 3 mechanic points now?

If I had my healing mechanic at 5 I'd have 200% reduced instant cast for damaging spell?
I'd spend one point instant cast brain bursta mechanic reduces to 160%. Done on the move.
Instant cast another brain bursta mechanic reduces to 120%. Done on the move.
Instant cast another brain bursta mechanic reduces to 80%. Done on the move
Hard cast brain bursta with 80% reduced cast time. Mechanic reduces to 40% Can't move
Hard cast brain bursta with 40% reduced cast time. Mechanic reduces to 0% Can't move

I'd have a machine gun brain bursta? Interesting. This is all with the same damage output currently. You also have focused mind morale ability. So after your done with your mechanic hit focused mind to continue to machine gun out brain bursta's.

Lets go the other way now.
If I had my damage mechanic at 5 I'd have 200% reduced instant cast for a healing spell?
I'd spend one point instant cast gather round mechanic reduces to 160%. Done on the move. 75% reduced overall healing.
Instant cast another gather round mechanic reduces to 120%. Done on the move 75% reduced overall healing.
Instant cast another gather round mechanic reduces to 80%. Done on the move 75 reduced overall healing
Hard cast gather round with 80% reduced cast time. Mechanic reduces to 40% Can't move 75% reduced overall healing
Hard cast gather round with 40% reduced cast time. Mechanic reduces to 0% Can't move 75% reduced overall healing

Ya you'd run out of AP on the gather rounds like that. But for the sake of understanding this mechanic if you had a AP feed somewhere it is possible.

Do I understand this new mechanic correctly?

[Miszczu5647]

Thanks Azarael for details. Those principles looks very coherently. And the changes in skills - we need to test them to discuss about their real value. So I am waiting eagerly for "general testing":)

@roadkillrobin
"Respecting as much as possible the original intent of the mechanic." And the intent was a hybrid healer/dps, isn't it?

[Azarael]

So what i get from this is: Basicly no changes to healing Shamans/AM????

1) Lifetaps work on the move when you have heal stacks and heal for significantly more, allowing you ST healing ability on the move from BE / I'TT!

2) Stacking up damage stacks before entering a battle allows you to fire off a burst of up to 5 cast heals at 60% of original cast time and AP cost.

3) Heal AM/Shaman have the option of using damaging spells when the opportunity arises, while having good stat contribution, reduced AP cost and decreased cast time on them.

stuff

You misunderstood. The bonuses are fixed and do not scale with mechanic points.

A Brain Bursta cast off 1 mechanic point casts in 60% of the time for 60% of the cost, receiving contribution from Intelligence or a factor of the base stat bonus the character has from items - whichever is higher.

A Brain Bursta cast off 5 mechanic points casts in 60% of the time for 60% of the cost, receiving contribution from Intelligence or a factor of the base stat bonus the character has from items - whichever is higher.

[bloodi]

Does this stat contribution count towards defense checks?

The problem most am/shamans encounter when trying to weave attack spells between their heals is the amount of disruption they face, its pretty common to have either the heal debuff or the silence specced and using it when you can but most of the time it will get disrupted.

And that the thing about heals, they can never get defended. Are there any measures about this in the changes?

I would much rather get a "cannot get disrupted when using a mechanic point" than a reduction in cast time to be honest.

[roadkillrobin]

So what i get from this is: Basicly no changes to healing Shamans/AM????

1) Lifetaps work on the move when you have heal stacks and heal for significantly more, allowing you ST healing ability on the move from BE / I'TT!

2) Stacking up damage stacks before entering a battle allows you to fire off a burst of up to 5 cast heals at 60% of original cast time and AP cost.

3) Heal AM/Shaman have the option of using damaging spells when the opportunity arises, while having good stat contribution, reduced AP cost and decreased cast time on them.

It's not dealing with the core issues of why the classes are prefmornming bad in RVR tho, wich I guess i have to repeat again are:

Long cast times wich makes em more prone to setbacks and interupts, not being able to heal grooup while under preasure. Nothing that mitigrates health loss when channeling to help give em time to use these long cast abillties examples being:

WP/DoK: Group absorb, Group hot while channeling for RF/SE or Smite/Essence Lash
RP/ZE: Group got, Absorb procs, Armor buff morale.

All these things you mention might work in smaller scale engagements were 3k AoE dps isn't flying arouns all over the place. But in reallity thats what happening in a warband vs warband encounter. There is somply NO time to pre dps to give you shorter cast times. You HAVE to spend that time on prehotting your group up coz groupheals alone arn't gonna cut it. Heals have to be consistant in these kinda fights. So once again people will just log over to their Warroir Preist or Deciple of Khaine and nothing has really changed tbh.

[Azarael]

Does this stat contribution count towards defense checks?

The problem most am/shamans encounter when trying to weave attack spells between their heals is the amount of disruption they face, its pretty common to have either the heal debuff or the silence specced and using it when you can but most of the time it will get disrupted.

And that the thing about heals, they can never get defended. Are there any measures about this in the changes?

I would much rather get a "cannot get disrupted when using a mechanic point" than a reduction in cast time to be honest.

Nothing in this version. Planned for next on lifetaps - think of those more of "I heal but can only heal if enemy is within 100ft" rather than "I attack the enemy and if I succeed, I heal for some tiny value of the damage". I am not sold on pure damage spells bypassing defense checks.

cast time, dok/wp etc

Two things:

- I don't claim this mechanic will solve every problem - only some of them. If you would prefer to stick with a mechanic whose sole applicability is allowing DPS Shaman / DPS AM to toss an instant self heal / group heal with crap stat contribution then that's on you.

- I don't find WP/DoK to be the valid target of any healer comparison. Let's not forget what those classes are - they were designed originally to engage in actual combat to build resource, and given benefits (quick-casting group heal, simple execution on heal side, medium armor) to aid with that. Then their concept was violated without a corresponding adjustment to their heal mechanics and they became ludicrous. If your point is that DoK/WP will still be better than AM/Shaman even with a tweaked mechanic, then you're probably right. Is that a problem with AM/Shaman or a problem with DoK/WP, or with both?

There are still things which can be done within this framework - Fury of Da Green / Energy of Vaul are platforms ripe for abuse, given that they're defined as 2s cast 5s cooldown AoE taps and da Green / Vaul trees are crap. I was very reluctant to make it known that I was experimenting with things precisely because I knew people would want any change to run to their own personal tastes and be a complete, one-iteration solution. It doesn't happen that way.

[footpatrol2]

Wow strongly disagree then. You NEED those instant cast damaging abilities. It is a defining charactoristic of the class. If you take away the instant casts your drastically reducing the class's mobility. Both AM's and Shaman's live and die by being able to maintain thier mobility. Your decreasing the mobility of dps shaman's even more now which is a common complaint of dps shaman's.

Also dps shaman's don't have AP issue's...So the reduced Ap cost is... meaningless

I main a dps shaman so... You need instant casts to play a dps shaman. The burst cycle is super short. You break line of sight build mechanic to 5 pop hit Ere we go go back into LoS release a instant brain bursta followed with Big Waaagh then end it with Bunch o' Waaagh first tick. This all hits on one time stamp by design due to the travel time on brain bursta. Then break LoS again rinse repeat. Your increasing the time I have to be in LoS. You can't really stand in the open as a shaman unless your ranged threat is overwhelming and they have to hide.

I don't have instant cast da waaaaagh is coming anymore.

I can't super charge my Bunch o' Waagh anymore because the mechanic don't work like that anymore.
No more super charged 1600 absorb from da green tree.

No more instant cast fury of da green. You can do it on the move. Currently you can instant cast fury of da green as long as you kept you mechanic at 5 it doesn't spend mechanic points. I believe this was the case on the mythic servers also. Every 5 sec's you can currently instant cast fury of da green as long as you don't use a damaging ability. You can kite and cast fury of da green. Fury of da green also doesn't care if your facing your target. So you can cast it while kiting. If you can maintain your mechanic at 5 and you put a chop fasta choppa in there you can spam fury of da green over and over and over and over and over again. I believe this was the original design intent you'd target your glass cannon wrekka and assist off his target to basically make him immune to damage for the duration of chop fasta.

No more instant casting of gather round as dps with mechanic at 5.

Healing shaman's lose out on instant ranged Geddoff which is a ranged AE knockback. This change drastically reduces that effectiveness. Your mobility is everything.

At first glance and since you made this clear I see this as a nerf and not a buff.

Good job thou on the Life tap stuff. I like the idea of those abilities being able to be cast while on the move. Casting on the move would help with da green. I play 15 point da green at times and field test everything I write about. I am constantly testing game mechanics and push the limits of what can be done. I feel like it is solid but you have to adapt your thinking. Your not a true dps or healer your a support class now for dps shaman's and can provide intense single target burst healing with fury of da green and chop fasta.

In my opinion, if you just made the life tap abilties to be able to be cast on the move and that was the only change I think it would be a good change. These other mechanic changes are in my opinion way too drastic.

We don't have to use this change right? Its a toggle off thing? Will you hard change the tooltip abilities to fit this? I'm willing to try it but it would be nice if I can just toggle it off because personally... I don't think the shaman is in that much bad of a place to begin with. The stuff your suggesting is MASSIVE change. I see this as fixing things that aren't that broken.

Something that would help shaman's a lot is a reduction in the duration of rez sickness. I don't know what the rez sickness duration was on the mythic servers but it feels like it is WAY to long here on RoR. You could also reduce the debuff of rez sickness to 40% instead of 50%. This would help shaman's and AM's dramatically.