DoK/WP with book/chalice...

[istvar]

also what makes zealot better at kiteing than the DoK for example? flash heal? LOL

what exactly makes the RP "tankier" than the WP vs melee? 3 minute cd, severable "aoe detaunt? ancestral inheritance + regen shielding? making u have to drop resto burst or blessings?

i know this will just end up being being answered with l2p but i am genuinely curious.

Probably l2p, cant tell since you prefer to post anonymously.
Learn to read is your problem right now:

WP: Devastator 1590, Prayer 560, 5x150 750, 3x 134 402 -> 3302 = 93,81%
RP: Devastator 795, Prayer 560, 5x150 750, 3x 134 402 -> 2507 = 71,22%

Difference: 765, RP racial 528, new difference 237 = 6,73% (keep in mind that rp can provide a higher armor buff than the prayer +10% armorpen reduction) If you give me the numbers I am sure you get a 15-20% better armor for rp than for wp, with a greater healoutput thanks to healbless.

A zealot kites better because he can heal while running, he starts 50f farther away, he has his kick at lvl 32 and he has stagger. He also cleanses most of the meleesnares, not being able to cleanse sw snare is a disadvantage though but you have to build your setup properly anyways.

i like how you factor the prayer into the RP armor but then conveniently make it sound like the WP can;t get the armor proc of RP HoT like the RP can....cause it looks better for the point you want to prove....and then lets also not forget that not being able to slot resto burst removes the RPs only tool to regain AP in a meaningfull way outside of 5 piece devastator......... your so selective in the arguments you present it's not even funny.
also lets just pretend everyone has max armor talis and armor debuffs don;t exist in the game and that RP/Zealot hot proc aren't rng based. lets also pretend that your knockback and stagger never get interrupted on the RP noone ever has immunities and that RP heals just as well as WP when getting focused then we add on top that the RP just magically keeps his whole grp alive while kiteing by spamming flash heals and then i whole heartedly agree with your argument

lets not even get started on DoK/zealot or DoK/Shaman with the great healing tools while kiteing while every knight with half a brain says thank you while shattering 2 shammy hots with 1 ability

Not sure if looking at healers in a vacuum is the right way of deciding about ballance ...
a bit less arrogance goes a long way buddy. i never really attacked you in any of my posts yet your attitude and tone are super arrogant and hostile, not sure if thats because your use of the english language is so poor or because that just character

i'm sure you will just keep cherry picking the points you want to look at to prove your point so i guess this has become pointless

[Scrilian]

Spoiler:

The thing you have to realise is that "great by design" and "broken/strong" are two ways of talking about the same concept. One is in a positive spin and the other in a negative spin. If you cannot say that everything in the game is "great by design", only some parts of it, your game is imbalanced and you have problems.

If everyone and their grandmother selects a particular tactic, either that tactic is too good, or the situation in which that tactic shines is overprevalent (possibly because other elements of game design are out of whack - see group cleanse). Either issue should be addressed. Tactics should be like their namesakes - situational or aimed to have a character play along different lines, with different strengths and weaknesses. There are many that clearly don't conform to this idea.

In other words - if you select group cleanse, there should be an opportunity cost in your having done so that I can exploit. If there is no such opportunity cost, the tactic isn't a tactic - it's just a lol buff.

Yes, I know what you mean.
But I hate to bring any IRL analogies in gaming - I don't know the way you can make everything great by design, without making the game bland and boring, just the way you can't please everyone. There are stances on "issues', which are often the negative spin ones, to be taken just for the sakes of the game being fun to play. In the end of the day its your call on it one way or another.

The thing is about the overprevalent situations that more often then not they are what the game is great at.
In WAR it was the warband based RvR where everyone minmax the best way possible and bomb the opposition not simply with zerg but with coordinated and group setups try to offset individual downsides and deny as much opportunity as possible - and prevailing as 24vs100.
Is it possible to bring up, for example, WLs in the bombing without providing them with something that can be considered broken because "meh" just wont cut it. The other thing is scenarios and 6v6 where the priorities switch to single target assist how to balance it out without hurting the coordinated warband play by making significatly them weaker without aoe-cleanse as an example.

Just look at wow approach "bring the player-not the class" at class balancing, where they equalized everyone to the point that you have now 50 shades of warriors, with one being red, the other is yellow and the third one is brown - and still failing at providing everyone the same amount of opportunities to exploit with 2-3 dominant setups each season.

Maybe instead of equalizing take more of an RPG approach, where if you want to be the best warband there is - you bring not only the best synergy tactics but classes as well. If want something - level a class that is excel at it. Buff the underdogs and we'll take them, or even better - make them somewhat OP without having everything to come at a cost and I guarantee the game will be better.

I might've lost my train of thought a couple of times here, sry, we have corporate holiday celebration in Russia.

Have you ever seen a 6man* slot RP/RP, AM/AM, RP/AM, ZEAL/ZEAL, SHAM/SHAM, ZEAL/SHAM for multiple occasions?

Rarely 2 of the same class but yes.

[Bozzax]

Have you ever seen a 6man* slot RP/RP, AM/AM, RP/AM, ZEAL/ZEAL, SHAM/SHAM, ZEAL/SHAM for multiple occasions?

Rarely 2 of the same class but yes.

So SHAM/ZEAL or RP/AM what guild was it do you remember and they did run this as their primary heal setup not when ppl were away? I can't recall a single one myself.

I think there was a 2x Runie like I said going all armor and doing AOE heals (don't recall name). Still they were lots easier to deal with then more common WP/WPs or WP/RPs as you just lol AP drained them.

[DefinitelyNotWingz]

Aoe-cleanse as NotWingz stated is particularly great when you try to fight 6vZerg and is bad vs direct assist.

Group cleanse is the best healer tactic in game regardless of setup or opposition. The only time I would consider not sloting it was if I was doing 1v1 with my healer

Still it arguably doesn't make other healers obsolete and is supposed to be great at sustaining the group.

Have you ever seen a 6man* slot RP/RP, AM/AM, RP/AM, ZEAL/ZEAL, SHAM/SHAM, ZEAL/SHAM for multiple occasions?

Personally I can't recall a single time I've seen this 2008-2016.

* Not a random group or everybody was away so we had to do with a **** setup grp.

EDIT: Hmm maybe there was a 2x RP actually not 100% but there may have been one when I think about it.

BOZZAX! you still have a homework, it is not going to magically disappear.

Also you genius want to play with ae cleanse vs setups like: CH/BO, WE/MR, Dok/-; CH/BO, DoK/MR, Dok/-?
Good luck. What a bad idea.

And yes depending on the situation AM/AM and RP/RP can be superior to RP/WP or WP/WP, overall RP/WP and AM/WP are the strongest for order in general. Fighting zergs it is WP/WP.

Dont talk about 6man when you apparently never had a decent one yourself.

[DefinitelyNotWingz]

i like how you factor the prayer into the RP armor but then conveniently make it sound like the WP can;t get the armor proc of RP HoT like the RP can....cause it looks better for the point you want to prove....and then lets also not forget that not being able to slot resto burst removes the RPs only tool to regain AP in a meaningfull way outside of 5 piece devastator......... your so selective in the arguments you present it's not even funny.

Bullshit, armor prayer does not stack with armor potion and one of those has to be present always.

also lets just pretend everyone has max armor talis and armor debuffs don;t exist in the game and that RP/Zealot hot proc aren't rng based. lets also pretend that your knockback and stagger never get interrupted on the RP noone ever has immunities and that RP heals just as well as WP when getting focused then we add on top that the RP just magically keeps his whole grp alive while kiteing by spamming flash heals and then i whole heartedly agree with your argument

Rp is not the only healer in grp, when you compare you compare balanced. Dps following the rp can not dmg your grp.
Otherwise you could come up with some zerg vs 6 man stuff. Not relevant and so is your argument.
RP still stands farther away from the enemie dps and you can only catch him with range cc or speedbuff which will not be enough in most cases.

lets not even get started on DoK/zealot or DoK/Shaman with the great healing tools while kiteing while every knight with half a brain says thank you while shattering 2 shammy hots with 1 ability

Every healer with half a brain stands more than 5f away from any hostile tank.

i'm sure you will just keep cherry picking the points you want to look at to prove your point so i guess this has become pointless

Thats exactly what you just did.

What is your ingame name? Would like to see a correlation between the bs you write here and ingame performance.

[DefinitelyNotWingz]

Have you ever seen a 6man* slot RP/RP, AM/AM, RP/AM, ZEAL/ZEAL, SHAM/SHAM, ZEAL/SHAM for multiple occasions?

Rarely 2 of the same class but yes.

So SHAM/ZEAL or RP/AM what guild was it do you remember and they did run this as their primary heal setup not when ppl were away? I can't recall a single one myself.

I think there was a 2x Runie like I said going all armor and doing AOE heals (don't recall name). Still they were lots easier to deal with then more common WP/WPs or WP/RPs as you just lol AP drained them.

Erengrads Nachtwache, one of the best guilds on Drakenwald if not the best. RP/RP and AM/RP was their setup.

[Bozzax]

BOZZAX! you still have a homework

You are way to insulting for me plus you are more then capable of doing it yourself.

[Bozzax]

Erengrads Nachtwache, one of the best guilds on Drakenwald if not the best. RP/RP and AM/RP was their setup.

Impressed!

So we have one guild and a possible 2x Runie then. Lets see if we can add more.

EDIT: I was actually guessing no one would come up with one.

[Tesq]

Could you explain how the proposition to have Purify and Patch Wounds perform both a single target cleanse and a group cleanse, with the group cleanse component only able to affect AoE debuffs, would be an issue?

not sure to have understand what you're asking? did you ask if it would be just better to have group cleanse only affect dots that work aoe?

[DefinitelyNotWingz]

BOZZAX! you still have a homework

You are way to insulting for me plus you are more then capable of doing it yourself.

Stop crapping the forums with your nonsense then.

You want to be the boss by tossing stuff in and expect others to do the work, that is not how it works.