Hey GMs,what did you do with engineers???....

[Tankbeardz]

Honestly, the range is a bit much. I think it needs to be toned down a bit. My 2 cents.

[wiscel]

I don't see the point at all to increase the range, talk about balancing the game :-S

[Azarael]

Nothing in this thread will be taken into consideration. A balance forum discussion will need to be presented explaining exactly why the range is too much, because the buff is already formalized. I am not interested in any discussion on any kind of balance change which does not have the partisans and the ignorant burnt out of it with a blowtorch.

[Calendra]

Nothing in this thread will be taken into consideration. A balance forum discussion will need to be presented explaining exactly why the range is too much, because the buff is already formalized. I am not interested in any discussion on any kind of balance change which does not have the partisans and the ignorant burnt out of it with a blowtorch.

The range is too much because the keeps and walls of keeps were designed for normal range. When you have classes who can shoot to inner keeps from outer walls, or shoot from top of keep to attackers close to outer gate you know its wrong. And i don't think you can redesign maps to fit with new range right?
The increase range on engi/magus its game breaking starting with T2 and ending with T4 in all keep attacks/defences.

[Nirawen]

Go play Magus and depop Engi

[Daknallbomb]

Nothing in this thread will be taken into consideration. A balance forum discussion will need to be presented explaining exactly why the range is too much, because the buff is already formalized. I am not interested in any discussion on any kind of balance change which does not have the partisans and the ignorant burnt out of it with a blowtorch.

The range is too much because the keeps and walls of keeps were designed for normal range. When you have classes who can shoot to inner keeps from outer walls, or shoot from top of keep to attackers close to outer gate you know its wrong. And i don't think you can redesign maps to fit with new range right?
The increase range its game breaking starting with T2 and ending with T4 in all keep attacks/defences.

aba seid of course mayb.. It will need a discussion AT The balance Forum. Just read an think

[warkaiser]

Although the range buff was initially an issue, it seems that, at least from what Az mentioned elsewhere regarding different specs for Engis coming in the future, the range issue is only temporary.

If I understand what he said correctly, this range buff will only be granted either a) when using certain turrets or b) will require speccing into and will only impact skills in that tree.

They will also have other options, rather than range, which will be viable and will impact other turrets / skills / trees. I know one which was mentioned was a heavy DoT build, which has harder hitting faster ticking DoTs which = more DPS (including AoE DoT damage) rather than having range. I believe theyre also looking into a more defensive option as well to offer them more survivability if they choose to go that route.

In the end, some may choose to use the range option, but not all since it may actually be less effective than some of the coming options for Engi / Magus which will improve their other capabilities while giving up this range buff. We will likely see WBs with a mix of different Engi builds to maximize their viability rather than just an across the board somewhat OP range boost.

[Gortoon]

since we have the abbility to respec at any time if i had an engi or a magus in a guild and the guild asked the engi's of the guild to respec since they have to defend a guild the thoughts about there will be more ways to build those toons is vanishing into the air.

All players have the abbility to respec according to the battle they will meet.
Defend? Range to shoot healers.
Attack? aoe to break funnels.

I ask again please think about the big picture. Before you make any changes think about what effects those changes will have on the battlefield.
Just by playing a class and having a problem and addressing to that problem might break all.

You started by changing the way a shamman is playing. Yea i know it is expiremental but i can't hold my self thinking that you will introduce and force those changes to us. What you manages is to somehow boost the 3rd hybrid tree and break the other 2 somehow.

Then changed the engi and magi. Great they indeed have a problem as i see it but you gave range?

I really feel that it does not matter if a talk about balances will be made. Devs will do as they want. And yes they have the power if you want to call it that. The right? That is something that is debatable.

Leave the mech of classes as they are. You want to buff them? buff and tweak dps or heal.
Buff or tweak end game armor. But please do not change the way the toons are. At least not in such way.

[Azarael]

The above post is a supreme example of why I am not listening to feedback outside of the balance forum.

I am interested in absolutely nothing besides reasoned analysis of why a particular change is good or bad, with actual arguments.

I am not interested in hearing unsubstantiated opinion.

You think the experimental changes broke the other trees? Good for you. I don't care unless you can show me actual analysis and arguments, in the correct place, outlining how exactly I did so.

You're getting rekt at keeps? You have no idea how ORvR is going to change in the future and why I am ignoring those comments about keeps.

Lastly, I want to make something clear:

Any comment you make which goes along the lines of "don't do this, do this instead" with absolutely no reasoning or support behind it will at best be ignored and will at worst be printed upon my toilet paper.

Save my effort and yours by realizing that I don't care what you think, per se. I care only about why you think what you think. If you give me no explanations, I will ignore your opinion, and I have no shame in admitting it. Nine times out of ten, people who complain without elaboration are one of the following:

- Order/Destro partisans
- People personally affected by the change in a justified manner (i.e. a counter was buffed or it threatens their OP class)
- Traditionalists, the most infuriating type, who will object to any change because it wasn't 1.4.8 and for no other reason than that

Further replies in this topic on the subject of either Engineer/Magus or Archmage/Shaman will receive no response, including any replies directed to this post. If you believe Engineer or Magus to be out of balance, post a detailed proposal in the balance forum on the classes.

[Gortoon]

as i said since we can respec at any given time, all the above as to there will be more builds and less people will get the extra range is just trush talk.

That you will ignore, trash tosh anything we say is no news to me.

But nevertheless thanks for your reply.