Return of Reckoning

georgehabadasher wrote:Lowering BO timers would go a long way toward splitting up the zerg and is a great change I'm happy to hear about. I think removing BO guards altogether would be beneficial as well. That'd give solo players and small groups (2-3 people) something to do to contribute to the realm and further split up the zerg.

However, as others have pointed out, attacking with even numbers is already very difficult because of the keep lord's power. Reducing BO lock timers exacerbates that problem, so I think nerfing the keep lords a little might compensate.

I would love it if Lords were removed from keeps (like on 1.4.8). However, I would also remove the outer ramp. This would encourage people to defend the keeps (return to the old tank walls, maybe? I loved those) and it would also encourage attackers as well, since there wouldn't be any OP Lords anymore.

The zerg would still need to split to protect/hold BOs. If the buff/debuffs are calculated correctly, attackers staying at the keep would have a pretty balanced fight against the defenders.

The only problem I see with this is that some devs have invested a lot of time on those lords. Maybe we could still use the lords in some way when more RvR changes come (keep ranking? Lord spawns inside the keep when your keep rank is 5? something like that?).

Regarding BOs, I agree that those NPCs should be removed. This way, ONE player is able to capture the BO at anytime (and therefore, the zerg HAS to split, there is no other option for them).

I see people talking about concepts that I'm way ahead of, so:

- You've probably noticed the flags inside the keeps marked as resource return points. We're going to use keep ranking + player-carried resources in future.

- The keep rank will affect the Keep Lord's power when that system is live.

Regarding BOs, I agree that those NPCs should be removed. This way, ONE player is able to capture the BO at anytime (and therefore, the zerg HAS to split, there is no other option for them).

I don't agree with this. If there is no minimum threshold for being able to attack a BO, the map becomes utterly indefensible.

Azarael wrote:I see people talking about concepts that I'm way ahead of, so:

- You've probably noticed the flags inside the keeps marked as resource return points. We're going to use keep ranking + player-carried resources in future.

- The keep rank will affect the Keep Lord's power when that system is live.

this could be interesting

Azarael wrote: I don't agree with this. If there is no minimum threshold for being able to attack a BO, the map becomes utterly indefensible.

In what way? It's already trivially easy for a zerg to take a BO out, the NPCs don't even slow it down.

georgehabadasher wrote:In what way? It's already trivially easy for a zerg to take a BO out, the NPCs don't even slow it down.

There is a difference between needing 3 people to do it kinda slow, a healer a tank and a dps than just sending a guy to cap BOS.

To cap everything right now at once, you need like, what, 12 people right now? With that change is just 4.

May not seem much but its quite the difference.

georgehabadasher wrote:

Azarael wrote: I don't agree with this. If there is no minimum threshold for being able to attack a BO, the map becomes utterly indefensible.

In what way? It's already trivially easy for a zerg to take a BO out, the NPCs don't even slow it down.

It's easy for a zerg to take a BO, but if you make it so that any solo player can just tap it and cap it BOs will be tapped left right and centre constantly. It'll become a game of chase-the-chicken then, which nobody will like. It'll also encourage zerging again, as you only need a zerg and 4x WH/WE then to cover BOs. The idea is to break up the zerg across the zone.

There needs to be some slow-down on taking a BO and it should require at least a few people. NPCs do just that.

Azarael wrote:I see people talking about concepts that I'm way ahead of, so:

- You've probably noticed the flags inside the keeps marked as resource return points. We're going to use keep ranking + player-carried resources in future.

- The keep rank will affect the Keep Lord's power when that system is live.

Regarding BOs, I agree that those NPCs should be removed. This way, ONE player is able to capture the BO at anytime (and therefore, the zerg HAS to split, there is no other option for them).

I don't agree with this. If there is no minimum threshold for being able to attack a BO, the map becomes utterly indefensible.

Will we also see guild keep claiming? May instill some realm pride again, plus stop guilds from swapping sides if they've invested in a keep.

Marsares wrote:

georgehabadasher wrote:

Azarael wrote: I don't agree with this. If there is no minimum threshold for being able to attack a BO, the map becomes utterly indefensible.

In what way? It's already trivially easy for a zerg to take a BO out, the NPCs don't even slow it down.

It's easy for a zerg to take a BO, but if you make it so that any solo player can just tap it and cap it BOs will be tapped left right and centre constantly. It'll become a game of chase-the-chicken then, which nobody will like. It'll also encourage zerging again, as you only need a zerg and 4x WH/WE then to cover BOs. The idea is to break up the zerg across the zone.

There needs to be some slow-down on taking a BO and it should require at least a few people. NPCs do just that.

NPCs don't slow down the zerg at all. Maybe 5-10 seconds, that's it. However it slows down the Underdog.

1.4.0 had no NPCs at BOs and a solo player was able to cap a flag. It worked fine, both sides were still able to rank their keeps, and the zerg was still able to defend the BOs (if they didn't, the resource carriers would heal keep doors by like 30%+, depending on AAO).

Penril wrote:
1.4.0 had no NPCs at BOs and a solo player was able to cap a flag. It worked fine, both sides were still able to rank their keeps, and the zerg was still able to defend the BOs (if they didn't, the resource carriers would heal keep doors by like 30%+, depending on AAO).

And that's it. We don't have resource carriers, we don't have keep levelling, etc. Therefore, there's no incentive for the zerg to sit on BOs if they can be taken by a single player. If we had all the above, then I'd argue for no NPCs (or very few) as well but at this moment in time we don't have that.

Marsares wrote:
And that's it. We don't have resource carriers, we don't have keep levelling, etc.

...yet.