[Engineer] The Workshop (builds, guides, and discussion)

[bloodi]

If it were up to me i would:

Give an equivalent of the BW/Sorc immo/calamity rotation for rifleman on the long range turret, most likely a BB/WoP copy that would let them plan a burst ahead.

Give an equivalent of the Kobts/Chosen Resist aura for the Grenadier turrent, an aoe debuff for everyone.

Give a heal debuff for the Close range turret.

All those things already exist ingame, so it wouldnt be a problem of implementation and they are more or less copies of succesful existing systems.

Probably a bit too much but hey, of course the same would be for magus.

[Penril]

My problem with adding a healdebuff on Sticky bomb is that it makes it mandatory.

There would be very few reasons to not pick it and would be impossible to get for things like Keg/snipe and so on.

If its on the turret, everyone gets it but its only useful for people very close to your turret, limiting its usefulness for say, a rifleman spec that doesnt want to be in melee range.

I would rather see the current engi specs be viable with a little cherry on top than having to reorganize everything because a heal debuff is a must on most groups.

Fair point. Still, i want to say that you could go h-debuff/Snipe/Keg at rr40.

http://waronlinebuilder.org/#career=eng ... :;;0:0:0:0:

At 70:
http://waronlinebuilder.org/#career=eng ... 6:;0:0:0:0:

[Sigimund]

Any of these ideas are better than this: http://www.weritsblog.com/2011/08/big-e ... s.html?m=1

[bloodi]

Fair point. Still, i want to say that you could go h-debuff/Snipe/Keg at rr40.

Its a bit too much all over the place dont you agree? Specially when you take into account that you are running a 150ft skill, a close range one and you have to go halfway for the healdebuff.

Thats why i say it, specs like that while cool are a bit too much on the bard syndrome side, apprentice of all, master of nothing.

http://waronlinebuilder.org/#career=eng ... :;;0:0:0:0:

This is much more powerful imo, with my change it would just ask the enemies to be in close range for the healdebuff.

I am not saying it wouldnt be possible, i just say that your spec maybe gives up too much things for a healdebuff making it a lot more bland. But thats debatable.

[Penril]

Other classes have a tri-spec as one of their best specs (DPS Shaman & AM, Chosen, KotBS, IB). My spec would basically have the engi getting at 65ft from his target, using the h-debuff and then trying to stay out of melee but doing pretty good damage if an enemy mdps gets close to him. He specs Trench Fighting not so he can get in melee range and do more damage; he uses it defensively to quickly burn any mdps that gets close to him. In fact you could replace Lightning rod with Crack Shot (disarm the Mara, heal debuff him, pew pew with +15% damage from TF).

Your spec has a very different playstyle, basically using Magnet and then spamming AoE. Better suited for a bomb group possibly, so it doesn't need a ST heal debuff that much.

Also, having a h-debuff (or any other useful buff/debuff/CC) on your pet is probably a bad idea; just ask White Lions. If it is attached to the Flame Turret, a Rifleman Engie (one who wants to stay away from his enemies) won't be able to properly h-debuff for his group. Not to mention, his enemies can simply stay away from the turret (or quickly kill it).

I'm not saying that a heal debuff is the one thing that will fix the class. I'm not saying they NEED the h-debuff. I'm just saying that, if they get one, it should be on a speccable skill and not come from a tactic or from the pet.

[Sigimund]

Turrets probably don't have the AI/pathing issues of a mobile melee pet. As long as they get enough mainstat to hit their targets. Karast's research also suggests that it is much better for your dps output to spec high in your main tree.

[Penril]

Did he do a comparison between a high Rifleman spec vs a mid-Rifleman spec with Tracer Rounds? I think his chart only checked Masterful Aim and Fightin' Chance. He compared spending skill points in the tree vs. stacking Ballistic. And yeah, going higher in a tree gives you more damage than stacking Bal. But i'm not sure it gives you more damage than a 15% increase chance to crit. Oh well, definitely worth testing.

[Sigimund]

Definitely, although I won't have the opportunity for about a week.

Bloodi also makes a good point that by shifting such changes into the turrets it has less of an impact on spec options, spec options being one of the good things about engineers. Although turret choice would be more meaningful.

You are right though, pets need to be reliable if they're going to support their classes.

[Glorian]

I like most of the ideas and I'm quite exited for the balance forums to open up.

With all the SCs running there is plenty of T4 testing underway.

[Karast]

Did he do a comparison between a high Rifleman spec vs a mid-Rifleman spec with Tracer Rounds? I think his chart only checked Masterful Aim and Fightin' Chance. He compared spending skill points in the tree vs. stacking Ballistic. And yeah, going higher in a tree gives you more damage than stacking Bal. But i'm not sure it gives you more damage than a 15% increase chance to crit. Oh well, definitely worth testing.

that was a limitation to the test. It is hard to find mobs of a consistent level that don't die to fast, and to calculate crit damage I would need to do an average over a certain number of hits. Not impossible but not easy. I am working on it but, it's still a far way away.

What about making the heal debuff core?

If it is put in a spec tree, or as a tactic it is a must spec / slot.

I honestly do not like the idea of a heal debuff because I think it is a band-aid on a broken leg. It would serve as a distraction to some of the core problems. If we did get one, making other changes would be hard, because a lot of people would fight against it as "they already got heal debuff QQ".

I would rather see mines changed back to 9s, with other staggers, and improvements made to turret stat contribution, the mechanic in general, and then key under-preforming abilities.