[Warrior Priest] - Grace

[Bozzax]

2- Warding Strike is not a parry strike-through. It's a debuff. It works for -everyone- attacking that target.
Sigmar's Vision requires you to buff an ally and have an enemy melee attack them to function. Warding Strike functions regardless of who is targeted.

Yep my bad wanted to make comparison easier and i hardly ever used it in party myself

EDIT: Also note that you can apply parry buff on 2 if you aren't pressured to heal

[Bozzax]

I suggested to make that flee+AP pot crap impossible in the very early days of this server.
The other items/renown abilities should never be in the game for balancing reasons

Suggestions and guesses on what will come on your part.

I simply tried to explain what was used to get into melee range. The tallies was RvR tallies with a small speed increase and I didn’t even mention the LOTD broken **** except Chargers that only worked out of combat. (One of the few LOTD things that weren’t broken IMO because of that conditional use)

Those show only how effective the dok is in 1vs1 situations, because of the good damage + selfheal.

Consume Essence, Rend Soul, morales, Devour Essence and Soul Infusion it is basically what you used to heal as a melee dok.

Being a Prio target you will be healing your self a lot especially if you are solo

There are also some group situations that only show how people die like flies around him, when they get the enemies attention.

I was asked to show sustained damage or burst … well

What i see in this videos, is a player playing a healer class to mainly heal himself and his guardbot buddy in scs and to farm others in 1vs1/1vs2 where this class is OP. This has nothing to do with this topic at all.

Brag vids are brag vids and the content is what he wanted it to be.

I wanted to show Heavensfurys vids as he was one of the best melee healers (dok) ever. Also you can clearly see what he is doing in the vids.

He fought 1v2, 1v3 and 1vX wo guard or AOE detaunt and stayed up longer then some tanks will in the same situation. Like I wrote before with a tank buddy they smashed 6 mans regularly.

He tanked 4 level 40 heroes wo breaking a sweat.

As you stated it (and as it seems), your opinions on "melee healing" (imo it's more melee DPS-ing with selfheals) are rather based on the glorification/studies on a single player and his classes 1vsx potential, not shaped by a general perspective on the whole balancing situation.

How can you call showing you "how to melee heal properly" in WAR an opinion?

[Bozzax]

I'd rather it not be mirrored. I like Sigmar's Shield as a concept, it just needs buffed.

Agree I actually regard it as different not weaker.

Having no "to hit" for heal situationally even is superior to DE especially as it helps a lot while out of range and trying to get in range (more then 30 feet).

[Azarael]

Okay, so:

1) I was referring to BASELINE KIT. I don't care what you can do with ludicrous end-game items or abuse of the Flee mechanic because a) other classes can do that too while retaining all the **** they have in their base kit that makes them effective at their role and b) these items served to blur the distinction between different kinds of classes anyway by giving every class some form of access to every ability and changing the basic game state too much

2) I don't care what melee DoK can do. It's known that they're superior when played like this.

3) I don't care what 1vX or 2vX do. At all. I wish I'd opened the balance forum before this thread had been posted because it says explicitly in the rules there "Thou shalt not make any reference to ANY STATE below 6v6, no exceptions." Part of the point here is that everyone chooses to focus the melee healer in those engagements and higher, and if melee healers explode in that kind of situation, they're irrelevant outside of "muh 1on1" and "muh braggart vids".

4) I especially don't care about the outcome of any situation in which you can't prove the gear, skill and spec in use by all parties was competitive for the encounter. This is what we call anecdotal evidence and it proves nothing.

5) Mentioning the silence as valid CC when you, yourself, posted in this thread to advise people not to hotbar it because it's a "wasted KD?" You're absolutely right about that, btw

Their specable is 100% uptime compared to MDPSs that has 50% uptime

And they have to blow a tactic slot on it and lean on it because they shouldn't get Guard. What's your point?

[Tiggo]

Balance forum? Where? ^^

[Azarael]

Haven't opened it yet because I can't mod it alone.

[ThePollie]

2) I don't care what melee DoK can do. It's known that they're superior when played like this.

The fact DoKs keep being brought up despite this being the first thing I addressed in my first post is fairly grating.

[Azarael]

DoK has only one relevance to this thread (and this is also addressed in the balance forum rules, it'll be banned there to focus exclusively on mirror parity or use mirror performance to discuss a class' own performance) and that is over which proposed adjustments to WP should be mirrored to DoK.

That's it.

[Luth]

Spoiler:

I suggested to make that flee+AP pot crap impossible in the very early days of this server.
The other items/renown abilities should never be in the game for balancing reasons

Suggestions and guesses on what will come on your part.

I simply tried to explain what was used to get into melee range. The tallies was RvR tallies with a small speed increase and I didn’t even mention the LOTD broken **** except Chargers that only worked out of combat. (One of the few LOTD things that weren’t broken IMO because of that conditional use)

Those show only how effective the dok is in 1vs1 situations, because of the good damage + selfheal.

Consume Essence, Rend Soul, morales, Devour Essence and Soul Infusion it is basically what you used to heal as a melee dok.

Being a Prio target you will be healing your self a lot especially if you are solo

There are also some group situations that only show how people die like flies around him, when they get the enemies attention.

I was asked to show sustained damage or burst … well

What i see in this videos, is a player playing a healer class to mainly heal himself and his guardbot buddy in scs and to farm others in 1vs1/1vs2 where this class is OP. This has nothing to do with this topic at all.

Brag vids are brag vids and the content is what he wanted it to be.

I wanted to show Heavensfurys vids as he was one of the best melee healers (dok) ever. Also you can clearly see what he is doing in the vids.

He fought 1v2, 1v3 and 1vX wo guard or AOE detaunt and stayed up longer then some tanks will in the same situation. Like I wrote before with a tank buddy they smashed 6 mans regularly.

He tanked 4 level 40 heroes wo breaking a sweat.

As you stated it (and as it seems), your opinions on "melee healing" (imo it's more melee DPS-ing with selfheals) are rather based on the glorification/studies on a single player and his classes 1vsx potential, not shaped by a general perspective on the whole balancing situation.

How can you call showing you "how to melee heal properly" in WAR an opinion?

You still refuse to get the point of this topic:

It doesn't matter how good you think the DPS output of the class is and how "well" it performs at the moment because of it.
(Btw: he is keyturning while using abilities, which means that he is high likely clicking and therefore it is really easy for any non-keyturning player to get/stay in his back. But these situations are never shown in those vids...)

There is still no evidence presented that the grace WP is a valuable/working melee healer in a group setup (and with healer i don't mean some DD who can keep himself and maybe his guard tank alive).

PS: Please no further melee dok 1vsX examples; imo a onehanded monkey can shine in 1vs1/1vs2 on that class.
Same with PvE examples: Later in the game many people solo-ed lost vale on melee healers; that doesn't prove anything.

[Bozzax]

Okay, so:

We did so many hours of 6vZerg or SCs so I can safely say our melee healer didn't explode. Quite the opposite actually.

He used "the same" basic abilities that is available for WPs and we didn't even have an IB

/last post

EDIT: IMO Buffing 11 pos tactic back closer to where it was and/or consider a 5s AOE HoT component would do wonders

EDIT2: Just to keep my last post promise.

Yep we did many 1 heal plus melee healer setups kiting the zerg exactly like you do with 2 back line healers.

Sometimes 2 healers and then he was more DD and had a free deadly role. Often this was when we were short on tanks.

24v24 we had no problem either since everything gets to AOE messy to really focus down all the melee healers,

It doesn't matter how good you think the DPS output of the class is and how "well" it performs at the moment because of it.

You still don't know how melee healing worked in WAR?