Return of Reckoning

covenn wrote:

Natherul wrote: Cant argue with this one, but again I dont get the whine because the old system was just as bad. And Im not saying that this new way is perfect (I even stated that Im not done) but its way better then having a DB be the deciding factor

Look. I am being completely civil. I am explaining a problem to you in detail as well as why I think it is a problem. I also offered up possible ways to improve it. Telling me I am 'whining' is insulting and simply wrong. Reasonable discourse should not devolve into a lack of respect and civility between people. I am trying to help you

The reason why it comes across as whine is because of snarky comments and the fact that you are continuously trying to make points where the old system was still worse as well as not even acknowledging the fact that I said that the system is not done.

That said perhaps whine was not the right word, perhaps complaints would be a better word

Natherul wrote:The reason why it comes across as whine is because of snarky comments and the fact that you are continuously trying to make points where the old system was still worse as well as not even acknowledging the fact that I said that the system is not done.

That said perhaps whine was not the right word, perhaps complaints would be a better word

I have acknowledged that in the past that it was still WIP. I believe I did so here in this topic as well earlier.

As far as the snarky comment, at least I prefaced it that I was being snarky first. I did so to be tongue in cheek...

Really, I am trying to help not fight.

Anyways, what do you recommend healers to do in order to progress if they can't be in an optimal group at all times?

Should we respec, gear up, and go DPS?

Natherul, like mentioned in the patchnotes thread, the loot change on damage done instead of DB is reasonable albeit tweaks can be always done. This is ok and I agree that it was previously abused with DB stealing.

When healing done and damage done are weighted in some way and then all contributing players on a kill roll for rewards, then all have a chance and loot distribution would be fair for all.

The major imbalance has nothing to do with the latest patch.

The core issue is rp, xp and inf gain for healers.

covenn wrote:Anyways, what do you recommend healers to do in order to progress if they can't be in an optimal group at all times?

Should we respec, gear up, and go DPS?

Same as for the archetype I play (Tank), its not a ideal system and it relies more that you group up then anything else really unless you want to change archetype.

Sulorie wrote:Natherul, like mentioned in the patchnotes thread, the loot change on damage done instead of DB is reasonable albeit tweaks can be always done. This is ok and I agree that it was previously abused with DB stealing.

When healing done and damage done are weighted in some way and then all contributing players on a kill roll for rewards, then all have a chance and loot distribution would be fair for all.

The major imbalance has nothing to do with the latest patch.

The core issue is rp, xp and inf gain for healers.

Yes and xp/rr/inf gain is not changed in this patch. The issue with weighting healing at all in the context of this issue is that 1. what do we measure it from? all targets in range? if so what range? just the healing on people who did damage?
And apart from those questions that data is not currently collected at all so it would mean more hardware usage overall (small amount per fight, but imagine with 1000 people online at the same time)

Natherul wrote:

covenn wrote:Anyways, what do you recommend healers to do in order to progress if they can't be in an optimal group at all times?

Should we respec, gear up, and go DPS?

Same as for the archetype I play (Tank), its not a ideal system and it relies more that you group up then anything else really unless you want to change archetype.

Ok got it, if we can't be in an optimal group we need to switch to dps or switch to a different class all together and forget about progressing our healer. For the sake of the game, I hope every healer doesn't start doing that. Though I guess you can hardly blame them if they do.

Edit: read this again and realized how it might have come across. Going to leave it is, but know I wasn't trying to be rude.

Any dps X who deals damage to a hostile player Y should build a healing rp pool (capped at the same rp value as solo killing X).
When dps X is killed, healers who healed Y are rewarded for their healing done.
If multiple healers are healing then the heal contribution is weighted.

Healing people under oil isn't giving rp this way, because the player on oil would have to be killed first.

Just a guess to make it more fair but probably there is no tracking for such activities.

I'm trying to keep up with this as best I can. Was there anything from development that mentioned the warband healing situation?

So the main goal is to group up. Is that ONLY 6 man or does that also include warband. Because for me as I said the issue is (if you can call it that) out of group (my 6 man) healing in a warband.

Is there no solution for that?

Zintair wrote:I'm trying to keep up with this as best I can. Was there anything from development that mentioned the warband healing situation?

So the main goal is to group up. Is that ONLY 6 man or does that also include warband. Because for me as I said the issue is (if you can call it that) out of group (my 6 man) healing in a warband.

Is there no solution for that?

I offered that it could be looked into that healers are getting rewarded reasonably for healing within a warband. That doesn't necessarily mean it's going to be a priority right now.

I also offered that if they want to gain renown like a DPS class, they do some DPS, but that didn't go over very well.

Basically they would have to bring back the old out of party healing reward system from live which used to actually give incentives for healers to keep people hotted that were not in same party as healer, because the healer would gain very good rewards from assisting any combat that rewarded renown in that way. This meant healing other parties in WB, healing outside of sc groups and healing solo dps players in RvR provided they had contributed renown lately.
These days you avoid all of above because it barely gives any rewards, so ideally out of party healing should start rewarding like it did on live, but possible with more barriers and max gains from doing so. It's a fine line balancing between decent out of party renown gains from healing, and making it the most profitable way to rank up renown like on live (it was awesome rain of purple back then).