Return of Reckoning

I've provided tons of interviews, quotes etz with MJ and other Devs in the past so have footpatrol you either chose not to read/watch em or are very ignorant of this.

Ok lets have it one external source intervju, guide, discussion talking about WAR 12v12 and not being about a SC (outside of ROR)

roadkillrobin wrote:I've provided tons of interviews, quotes etz with MJ and other Devs in the past so have footpatrol you either chose not to read/watch em or are very ignorant of this.

He's only saying that 6v6 was supported officially by the game, which it was. That doesn't mean it was the central focus of the game (which it wasn't). Not too hard to grasp, tbh.

Bozzax wrote:Ok lets have it one external source intervju, guide, discussion talking about WAR 12v12 and not being about a SC (outside of ROR)

I told you i can't prove this theory, this is more about adding peices together, seeing recuring patterns, checking dps output vs healing output and damage mitigration, looking back at the history of the game etz.

I can however give you sources of PR material were they make strong hints about game being about larger groups, keeps and not being about individual progression. However thats not very relevant.

I'm sure you will understand this. A group of 6 need to have the same defensive capabillity taking on dps from Two groups (Standard Scenario Size) As well as a full warband (8 AoE dps) So from a ballance perspecive. 8 AoE dps should have the same dps output as 2 6 man groups. 4 ST dps + 2 dps tanks ST assisting. If these defensive capabillties are tweaked to work optimally for 6v6 then 12 man scenario groups are gonna suffer and 24 man Warbands gonna suffer. The current ballance state for 6v6 is horrible. Fighting goin on for 15 min with 3 kills. That means the defensive capabillties are way to high for such small scale fights.

So lets hear your argument why you think 6v6 is a good anchor point for Ballance?

roadkillrobin wrote: The current ballance state for 6v6 is horrible. Fighting goin on for 15 min with 3 kills. That means the defensive capabillties are way to high for such small scale fights.

Just thought I'd chime in: that's more due to good players on both teams playing properly - resulting in few deaths - as opposed to defensive capabilities/imbalances. In a good premade vs bad premade 6v6, you'll see those '3 deaths' become 15+. Not to derail here but unless you actually know what you're talking about you shouldn't make factitious, unfounded statements.

peterthepan3 wrote:

roadkillrobin wrote: The current ballance state for 6v6 is horrible. Fighting goin on for 15 min with 3 kills. That means the defensive capabillties are way to high for such small scale fights.

Just thought I'd chime in: that's more due to good players on both teams playing properly - resulting in few deaths - as opposed to defensive capabilities/imbalances. In a good premade vs bad premade 6v6, you'll see those '3 deaths' become 15+. Not to derail here but unless you actually know what you're talking about you shouldn't make factitious, unfounded statements.

I do think TTK/Defensive capabilities are a bit outta whack for 6v6, but ya a lot of it is up to skill or rather communication/coordination.

Don't know how many kills I've seen slip away because MDPS snare immunity charge out that could of been prevented with good tank play (champs challenge) or just a total lack of punts/KD's CC etc...

Two good premades that have braindead tanks on both sides is where you are gonna see the 15 minutes stalemates from, because tank mechanics/morales are OP :^) and at the same time tanks are the only things that counter them... so much is on the tanks even though people see the "carry" role as something like slayer.


Personally I'd like to see some more counterplay to things like guard or certain morales or mechanics like challenge etc... toned down a bit. A faster paced gameplay style that punishes mistakes more basically, though not all will agree and there is major implication on the large scale fighting balance. I think most can agree guard is overkill for small scale, but it is vital to the large scale fighting balance.

peterthepan3 wrote:
Just thought I'd chime in: that's more due to good players on both teams playing properly - resulting in few deaths - as opposed to defensive capabilities/imbalances. In a good premade vs bad premade 6v6, you'll see those '3 deaths' become 15+. Not to derail here but unless you actually know what you're talking about you shouldn't make factitious, unfounded statements.

Yes coz their playing their classes well. Tought we had agreed that ballance changes should be made asuming people playing the classes right.....

Jaycub wrote:

Personally I'd like to see some more counterplay to things like guard or certain morales or mechanics like challenge etc... toned down a bit. A faster paced gameplay style that punishes mistakes more basically, though not all will agree and there is major implication on the large scale fighting balance. I think most can agree guard is overkill for small scale, but it is vital to the large scale fighting balance.

A dps increasee buff in the 6v6 Scenarios might also do the trick. The only thing I don't wanna see is ballance changes to 6v6 that affects the defencive capabillties in the 12-24 man content.

roadkillrobin wrote:

peterthepan3 wrote:

roadkillrobin wrote: The current ballance state for 6v6 is horrible. Fighting goin on for 15 min with 3 kills. That means the defensive capabillties are way to high for such small scale fights.

Just thought I'd chime in: that's more due to good players on both teams playing properly - resulting in few deaths - as opposed to defensive capabilities/imbalances. In a good premade vs bad premade 6v6, you'll see those '3 deaths' become 15+. Not to derail here but unless you actually know what you're talking about you shouldn't make factitious, unfounded statements.

Yes coz their playing their classes well. Tought we had agreed that ballance changes should be made asuming people playing the classes right.....

Yes, we should - hence why I called you out on your statement, i.e. that fights go on for 15minutes with no kills due to 'horrible balance state'. Good players playing their classes well is the biggest factor in such scenarios occurring, and while I do agree with some of what Jacub said (general TTK/guard) you can't say that getting 3 kills at the end of 15minutes is down to bad balance when good players rarely get killed anyway.

You understand that those factors plays in when playing any other scale aswell right? The difference is the damage output gets higher and therefor 15min fights against same people doesn't happen in RVR. Or even 12v12 scenario. The "skill"wich in reallity is timing is a part if the defensive capabillites i'm talking about and in the end it comes down to use abillties and classes. And those abillties and classes need to have a ballancing point. And those abillties and classes didn't get their ballancing point for 6v6 hence 6v6 is a horrible ballanced state.

roadkillrobin wrote:You understand that those factors plays in when playing any other scale aswell right? The difference is the damage output gets higher and therefor 15min fights against same people doesn't happen in RVR. Or even 12v12 scenario. The "skill"wich in reallity is timing is a part if the defensive capabillites i'm talking about and in the end it comes down to use abillties and classes. And those abillties and classes need to have a ballancing point. And those abillties and classes didn't get their ballancing point for 6v6 hence 6v6 is a horrible ballanced state.

the thing is I didn't say they didn't though, nor am I the one arguing to balance around XvX maybe that is one of the reasons people like playing XvX (longer fights)