Return of Reckoning

Was about to post the same math:

Without Turret dmg = 100%
With 8 stacks 5% each (pre patch) dmg = 140%
With 5 stacks 4% each (post patch) dmg = 120%
bonus dmg reduction (40% vs. 20%) = 50%
overall dmg reduction (140% vs. 120%) ~ 14,3%

But let's adress the base issue here.

The rework from 5 stacks 4% each to 8 stacks 5% each has been years ago (viewtopic.php?f=42&t=17514#p190175) and has also been part of the Wiki (https://wiki.returnofreckoning.com/Engi ... ss_Changes) for about the same time, not to mention the tooltips in game stated exactly the same behaviour.

Now many people these days know the common City scoreboards with Magi / Engineers dishing out 8, 9, 10+ mil dmg, which under certain circumstances from good players is indeed possible, but has several reasons:
- Staying out of blob range and thus Challenge rotations OR using Flame Turret to hit even more stacked targets with AoE
- Being pressured too less / freecasting and thus keeping their stacks
- Such Cities usually have very long fights (1h+) with high sustain dmg which adds up over time, especially with mentioned classes during long champ fights in S3
- Debuffs
- Napalm bug as mentioned before
Add endgame gear with high crit and crit bonus dmg while stacking offensive stat and power, not to mention most of their AoE ignoring Armor in general.

The only way to justify an across the board dmg reduction is as a temporary bandaid until single issues are adressed, to revert it afterwards. It's not like the single-target dmg from those classes has been an issue in all scales of the game before, sure they can burst and time their DoTs accordingly, but it's not like they're doing it better than all other classes.

Helltrain wrote: Fri Mar 19, 2021 7:04 am Good patch. Magus was overperfoming damage wise when he should overperform on utility.

Now fix the 25% damage tactic from healers, compared to the 160 int tactic who is capped, this one is really broken strong.

You mean the -20% heal tactic? Nothing wrong with it.

Orontes wrote: Fri Mar 19, 2021 7:46 am

dalen wrote: Fri Mar 19, 2021 7:33 am

Orontes wrote: Fri Mar 19, 2021 7:26 am


The above comments indicate someone who doesn't play the affected classes. The base line damage for engi/magi was considered rubbish. The 20% damage bonus first occurred on Live and the classes were still seen as comic relief. It wasn't until the 2016 rework of the two class that boosted the damage bonus to 40% that viability was achieved. A 20% reduction in damage bonus is not insignificant for classes that strain to be competitive or an option for grps. This error needs to be reversed. It is a mistake. It is a fundamental misunderstanding of the player experience of the two classes.

No, it was just maths. But sure, lets continue to pretend that 20 / 140 = 1 / 5.

Reread my comment. You've not understood it. As stated: 40% damage bonus reduced to 20% is a 20% reduction of bonus damage. As also stated, the 20% damage bonus as it was on Live was universally understood as insufficient. Both magi and engi were laughing stocks on Live. This error in nerfing these classes under the guise of a bug fix (that is demonstrably false) needs to be reversed.

Damage bonus change was far from the only thing about these classes that were changed since live. Some generic changes like the DoT refresh mechanic has benefitted Engineer & Magus a lot. But off the top of my head (probably forgotten some) engineer has also had these changes:

- Napalm grenade base damage increased by 50%
- Strafing run is a core skill
- Bandolier tactic replaced with Dazzling Flash (AoE build time increase)
- Phosphorous Shells moved to Grenadier and made into a channeled damage and AoE snare
- Added Armor Piercing Rounds (25% armor penetration) to 13pts Rifleman
- Land mine has less delay before it explodes and staggers for 5s
- Quick reloader tactic changed to reduce cast time of rifleman abilities
- Crack shot cast time reduced from 2s to 1s
- Keg only heals party members
- Shock Grenade is removed and replaced by Field Repair : 3 seconds channeled Heal on your turret . During the repair, the turret is immune to damage
- Flak Armor stacks with armor pots

Turrets in general:

- Added AoE damage reduction
- Added passive healing of turret when owner is healed
- Renown training is granted to turret as well
- Turrets get 100% of the following stats from owners gear:
* Critical hit rate
* Critical hit rate reduction
* Armor penetration
* Armor penetration reduction

Gun Turret (Sniper):

- Improves your and your turret's range, by 5% per stack to a maximum of 25%.

Bombardment Turret (Mobility / DoT):

- Improves your turret's range by 5% per stack to a maximum of 40%.
- Provided you have at least one Improvised Upgrade stack, allows you to use Path of the Grenadier skills while moving.
- Shortens the duration and tick interval of Path of the Grenadier and Tinkerer DoTs by approximately 5% per stack for a maximum reduction of 35%.

Flame Turret (Defensive Close Combat AoE):

- Improves your chance to Dodge and Disrupt by 4% per stack to a maximum of 32%.
- Improves your turret's chance to Dodge and Disrupt by 8% per stack to a maximum of 64%.
- Increases the radius of any of your AoE skills by 6.25% per stack to a maximum of 50%.
- Increases your AoE cap by 2 per stack.
- Reduces your cast range by 5% per stack to a minimum of 60% of its normal value.

Orontes wrote: Fri Mar 19, 2021 7:46 am

dalen wrote: Fri Mar 19, 2021 7:33 am

Orontes wrote: Fri Mar 19, 2021 7:26 am


The above comments indicate someone who doesn't play the affected classes. The base line damage for engi/magi was considered rubbish. The 20% damage bonus first occurred on Live and the classes were still seen as comic relief. It wasn't until the 2016 rework of the two class that boosted the damage bonus to 40% that viability was achieved. A 20% reduction in damage bonus is not insignificant for classes that strain to be competitive or an option for grps. This error needs to be reversed. It is a mistake. It is a fundamental misunderstanding of the player experience of the two classes.

No, it was just maths. But sure, lets continue to pretend that 20 / 140 = 1 / 5.

Reread my comment. You've not understood it. As stated: 40% damage bonus reduced to 20% is a 20% reduction of bonus damage. As also stated, the 20% damage bonus as it was on Live was universally understood as insufficient. Both magi and engi were laughing stocks on Live. This error in nerfing these classes under the guise of a bug fix (that is demonstrably false) needs to be reversed.

yeah i got that, i agree.

Very good patch! With Trivial Blows players have so many option for new builds and tactics.
More variations is always needed!! We need some fresh air in campaing and battles, its start to be a stagnation.
Good job

Onigokko0101 wrote: Thu Mar 18, 2021 8:08 pm

Ramlaen wrote: Thu Mar 18, 2021 7:26 pm Engi/Magus damage is being nerfed because of long sweaty cities where neither side could put out enough damage to actually secure kills...

The playstyle its nerfing is Keep Wall camping Snipe/BoC spamming builds.

In cities you are generally hovering around 3-5 stacks because of movement/pet dying/etc...

In City you are generelly hovering around with 0 Stacks because your pet dies instantly in the AOE. In city im playing my Magus on full AOE i am standing inside the enemys like a BW/Sorc, if the slayer/BW/WL trains comes the pet dies immediately. So the Citys will not be effected so hard with this Nerf.

Overall the Nerf... oh wait " Bugfix" is the biggest fail what they have done in my playtime of RoR.
Only with this buff magus/engi was playable.... but the devs totally **** up...

a beginner's mistake
a number-only error
Compare the skill sets and damage of other long-range attackers to Magus and patch them.

interesting patch, i'm very happy about having access to TB again, looking forward to testing it out

dalen wrote: Fri Mar 19, 2021 8:20 am
Bombardment Turret (Mobility / DoT):

- Provided you have at least one Improvised Upgrade stack, allows you to use Path of the Grenadier skills while moving.

Now that you nerf the engi damage, could you perhaps fix the bug that phosphorous shells breaks on movement when you are using bombard turret too ? Clearly it is a grenadier ability.

Ty

yhani wrote: Thu Mar 18, 2021 10:32 pm with high lvl tank I dont need trivial blows since i dont take crit dmg anyway with right setup. Rather have points in blocking or parry

if melee dps invest in tb they lose something else, same thing with healers
timing and kiting is still best defense

engi and magus took huge hit here....but more people invest in tb the better its for you guys who do flat dmg

How do you not take crit damage? A tank can go into negative 20-30% but it's not enough to avoid all crits, especially when debuffed.

dalen wrote: Fri Mar 19, 2021 8:20 am

Orontes wrote: Fri Mar 19, 2021 7:46 am

dalen wrote: Fri Mar 19, 2021 7:33 am

No, it was just maths. But sure, lets continue to pretend that 20 / 140 = 1 / 5.

Reread my comment. You've not understood it. As stated: 40% damage bonus reduced to 20% is a 20% reduction of bonus damage. As also stated, the 20% damage bonus as it was on Live was universally understood as insufficient. Both magi and engi were laughing stocks on Live. This error in nerfing these classes under the guise of a bug fix (that is demonstrably false) needs to be reversed.

Damage bonus change was far from the only thing about these classes that were changed since live. Some generic changes like the DoT refresh mechanic has benefitted Engineer & Magus a lot. But off the top of my head (probably forgotten some) engineer has also had these changes...

Quite so. All classes have had changes made to them. This particular change, based on a lie it was a bug fix, speaks to the very core mechanic of the two classes. Their damage bonus changed from 40% to 20% impacts every single damage ability for all mastery types. If it is correct, the rationale for this foolish decision is because of raw numbers from City sieges, that is similarly mind numbing in its scale of foolishness. It confuses AOE fluff damage as some core horror. It confuses a calculation as a justification: class X has sum Y as its damage, there must then be an imbalance. How many in City actions are begging for engi or magi? How many are running in fear during City actions because engi/magi are on the opposing side? This lie it was a bug fix that reverses the core mechanic fix of 2016 underscores clearly those making these decisions do not play either class and do not understand the player experience. This needs to be reversed. It's a bad decision.