Return of Reckoning

roadkillrobin wrote:Was trying to make a point why double WP is just as viable as double DoK even tho WP cleansing are sigificant
worse. Even tho they can't cleanse some nasty healdebuffs they arn't as affected by them coz of the stacking heal increase buffs they get.

sanii wrote:

Annaise16 wrote:
With regard to the first topic, when the game is available;
1. Log onto different toons and visit the career trainer.
2. Swap out pieces of gear with your main stat to see how your main stat and your target's toughness effect damage. 3. Alter the number of mastery points in each tree to see how ability level alters damage.
4. Use this data to derive the formulae used to calculate damage for each ability.
5. Go to the Arsenal of War website to see the stats for the relevant gear.
6. Recall the damage bonuses you had on your toons at different renown ranks and in different gear sets.
7. Put all of this together to make the comparisons.

So essentially what you are saying is that a WH will have a 40-45% damage increase and BW will have a 35-40% damage increase WITHOUT including Auto attacks and any modifiers aye ? (From your methodology that is - and a MAIN POINT of my argument)

Annaise16 wrote: With regard to the CCM videos. Just search for them on youtube using warhammer CCM. The scen I mentioned was, I think, the only 6v6 in which the RP died. So they seemed to have a fair idea of what they were doing.

The only videos i see are from lvl 35 ? And even then you wouldn't pop like that. And as far as RP at 40 without having ol' WB or access to both incoming and outgoing healdebuff it ain't a very smart idea to start/go for the RP.

Jaycub wrote:single target cleanse.

Penril wrote:

Landaren wrote:
Cleanse renders what classes useless?

Let me give you an example.
Group 1
Magus, Sorc, Chosen, BG, DoK, DoK
Not a great group make up but it can work

VS
Slay, Slay, Kotb, Kotb, WP, WP
Considered OP by every destro player on earth

In the above example what party will be capable of removing debuffs effectively?
Both parties have healers that counter the DPS's debuffs.

Now lets change things around a little for destro.

Marauder, WE, Chosen, BO, Dok Dok
VS same order premade
Now what team is more effective in the meta?

Suddenly, order cannot remove any snares, nor can they remove any healing debuffs. Destro will have the edge here with CC and debuff removal, pressure wont be applied by the slayers because the WP wont be able to keep up with the damage output from destro forcing them to either withdraw or slowly die.

What I would say about cleanse is that it's actually a crappy ability that is over performing in some situation, and useless in others.

You are tyring to justify imbalance by using another imbalance as an example (Destro has 3 Ailment inc healdebuffs, while order has one crappy 25% curse one on DPS WP).

In other words: "it is ok if group cleanse makes Magus useless, because WP can't cleanse Mara or WE". Bad logic is bad.

Jaycub wrote:what stacking heal increase buffs?

RP has blessing of Grungni which is 25% increased healing for their target which means it effects both healers, WP has exalted defenses which is a 20% increase only for themselves and only on a defence/avoidance which means they need to be getting hit which isn't likely in a controlled environment outside of ORvR?

WP don't have get out of jail free card M2 either, another big contributor to double dok groups.

bloodi wrote:

roadkillrobin wrote:Was trying to make a point why double WP is just as viable as double DoK even tho WP cleansing are sigificant
worse. Even tho they can't cleanse some nasty healdebuffs they arn't as affected by them coz of the stacking heal increase buffs they get.

So 50% heal debuff is comparable to 10% crit more on heals and 15% improved healing?