Ruin Gear Wipe

[Valfaros]

Okay I have some points to make.

1) Wipe decision: Really don't understand why your way to handle was a wipe of the equipment. You certainly saw the issue very soon based on all these complaints and instead of just disabling the loot system or the PQ's your go was to wait 3 days and then make a wipe. While contributing players getting their items stolen by afk leeching people the devs deside to take the bits they got too sounds pretty cruel to me.

2) Consistency: I see you guys as professional people you want to be treated that way with respect and proper manors. One of the things to be professional is to be consistent if changes are made. The loot system is the same for oRvR. There are way more people doing afk keep leeching than people standing afk at PQ's. The effort it takes to follow someone isn't bigger than standing afk near a PQ. So be consisted and wipe everyone affected by the loot system.

3) The new loot system: As you already told us it is still very lackluster. I would even go to, "it is just as bad" or "even worse."
3.1 Still 60% RNG through roll
3.2 Helps AoE mob stealing people while punishing healers and tanks. Even if you count healing done, the PQ's were designed for about 9 people and since it doesn't scale there isn't much to heal or to tank when there are 30+ people running around.
3.3 Persistence allows afk players to win just as easy as before. Based on the loot system now if you gain top places with 500+ points you will always get a bag and based on the gaussian normal distribution a good amount of players will lie below a roll of 500 which causes to give them not a golden bag instead a useless other one. So persistence never effects strong contributing players even if they lose one bag after bag.
Afk players on the other hand will based on the same rule win no bag for 2 or 3 rounds and will than stand at the same point just like the contributing ones.
So where is the point to contribute anyway if my bonus is getting canceled out by persistence.

4) Going with the grind train: If we could learn anything from Gw2 "Grind is just not a funny task to do" Since these PQ's were designed for 9 players and I remember strongly that doing those with 9 almost always got you 2-3 golden bags. I can't understand that a lot of times less than 20 players results in no golden bag at all. This game was grindy on live did you do something wrong on the coding or is this intended.
+Also strange on lock rewards

5) Telling us this is Alpha: Yes I get it alpha there will be bugs there could be roll backs or wipes. Okay fair enough but wait the loot system was always like that did I misinterpret bug because I'm pretty sure that RNG based model triggering if you are close to the PQ is exactly what you coded. So this really isn't a bug and I don't like it if you take this alpha statement as excuse for everything. At least stand your point and say well we don't like how quick or unfair the loot system is and we wipe everything caused by it. Not just some "well it's alpha take it" line.

6) Complaints: As you stated this is alpha so you should take complaints I know you work hard and don't get paid but it is your hobby I guess you like it otherwise you wouldn't do it right?
P.s Game testers normally get paid too, you are right there are normally less than several 1000 but testing something (even if it's a game) isn't free either keep that in mind too. You are also right that most of the people playing here never seen the bug report section but you still should accknowledge the work others are doing do write these bug reports. I guess without them you would have it harder to fix the game to that point you are happy with it. If you delete our effort we put in, there will be people being upset about it especially if there were other ways to deal with it.

I think that is about what came to mind while reading this thread on the train.

[th3gatekeeper]

In the live game, I'm pretty sure that contribution at PQs was based on experience points gained, with experience points distributed fairly equally to all members of the group, regardless of role. The contribution might have been boosted if you were in a group. Why not do the same here?

Solo or groups of afk'ers should not receive experience and so would not get a roll on the loot.


You could also set up an RNG system where contribution plays such a large part in the roll that only people with the top few contributions have a chance of getting a gold bag. For example, the top 6 contributors would receive bonuses of +500, +400, +300, +200, +100, and +50. No one else would receive a bonus. The roll would have a maximum value 300. In this situation, assuming there was only 1 gold bag, only the top 3 contributors would have a chance of winning the bag.

Only issue here is you get a "premade" group running, who doesnt invite anyone else and they corner the market on "experience points/contr. points" they will be able to get more than anyone else.


I think the best solution is to create a "threshold" of contribution that people need to pass for a chance to roll (I already think this is in there) and then let it be up to pure rolling at that point IMO. If you really want, create "tiers" of rewards at higher thresholds.

So for instance, Deathsword would be a minimum of 100 contr. for a chance to roll. Which isnt that hard, youll get that by doing decent damage to the Hero/Champs. Then if you REALLY want, do tiers of reward at say 150 and 200 contr.

But giving ONE player a +450 really makes it hard for non DPS classes to get first.

Then the issue of not having a gold bag drop everytime... it should be a much higher probability...

[szejoza]

People should treat bug reporting as paying monthly fee for a game. It's not that we can kindly report something, it is our duty if we want to get a better game. And it works both ways, devs need us to report issues and we need them to implement fixes.
About ruin wipe, maybe the action was taken a little too late, maybe too early, maybe pq's shouldn't be implemented at start of t4, maybe it would be best if not a couple of pq's were working but all of them...
The thing is, they rushed T4 cause of keep bug (seems like everyone have already forgotten about it), many things will not work as intended, many were released as half-products and we have to report every issue that we find, and as was already stated numerous times – expect wipes
We could wait for another month with broken keeps in t3 until t4 was in a better shape but we were given the chance to progress to the next stage so now – do our damn duty and report bugs/abuses when you find one!

As a side note
maybe if the players actually reported it much earlier instead of grinding the sh*t out of PQ’s, wipe would take place earlier without much harm as they could not just ignore over 100 reports of afk abusing in the first hours of T4 going live

[Telen]

The pqs on live used the same contribution system that rvr did. Thats why you could do out of party healing and score big just like in rvr. Id say this is an issue with contribution that should be looked at in the future if the devs look at rvr contribution.

[magicthighs]

Please change the system to

1. Reward Participation in all stages
2. Count number of used abilities instead of damage or heals which favors builds and certain classes
3. Counting the number of enemies you have been in combat with

Would be nice with something similar in SCs so ppl afk = 0 emblems / xp / renonwn
Same for RvR no abilities used = no rewards

Counting ability uses would be superior to damage or heals. It favors being there and being active regardless of role

I disagree, it would be trivially easy to abuse that system, all you'd need to do is target yourself and cast a HoT, or use Flurry, etc, etc, over and over again.

[zabis]

But you'd have to at least be active

[magicthighs]

So easy to filter out stupid stuff

I keep reading this coming from people who have absolutely no clue whether or not it's actually easy. Easy to filter out stupid stuff, easy to just remove one line from the drop table, easy to just mail every single person that lost a piece the talismans they migth have had in their items.

If it's all easy, go check out the old war emu code on github, implement your changes, create a patch, and ask someone to get a developer to take a look at it.

[magicthighs]

P.s Game testers normally get paid too, you are right there are normally less than several 1000 but testing something (even if it's a game) isn't free either keep that in mind too

Please just stop playing this ALPHA if that's the way you feel. I'd like to say more, but it would be very unprofessional for me to speak my mind after reading that deluded statement.

[Azarael]

Okay I have some points to make.

1) Wipe decision: Really don't understand why your way to handle was a wipe of the equipment. You certainly saw the issue very soon based on all these complaints and instead of just disabling the loot system or the PQ's your go was to wait 3 days and then make a wipe. While contributing players getting their items stolen by afk leeching people the devs deside to take the bits they got too sounds pretty cruel to me.

You were warned.

No apology. Now and forever. I can't emphasise this enough - I have absolutely zero remorse because you were warned. Answer will be the same no matter how many times this is brought up.

2) Consistency: I see you guys as professional people you want to be treated that way with respect and proper manors. One of the things to be professional is to be consistent if changes are made. The loot system is the same for oRvR. There are way more people doing afk keep leeching than people standing afk at PQ's. The effort it takes to follow someone isn't bigger than standing afk near a PQ. So be consisted and wipe everyone affected by the loot system.

Are we? Most people want to be treated with respect and proper manners, especially if they're contributing a free service.

3) The new loot system: As you already told us it is still very lackluster. I would even go to, "it is just as bad" or "even worse."
3.1 Still 60% RNG through roll
3.2 Helps AoE mob stealing people while punishing healers and tanks. Even if you count healing done, the PQ's were designed for about 9 people and since it doesn't scale there isn't much to heal or to tank when there are 30+ people running around.
3.3 Persistence allows afk players to win just as easy as before. Based on the loot system now if you gain top places with 500+ points you will always get a bag and based on the gaussian normal distribution a good amount of players will lie below a roll of 500 which causes to give them not a golden bag instead a useless other one. So persistence never effects strong contributing players even if they lose one bag after bag.
Afk players on the other hand will based on the same rule win no bag for 2 or 3 rounds and will than stand at the same point just like the contributing ones.
So where is the point to contribute anyway if my bonus is getting canceled out by persistence.

Quick fix. Why are you criticising something we've already said was an emergency fix to deal with AFKers?

4) Going with the grind train: If we could learn anything from Gw2 "Grind is just not a funny task to do" Since these PQ's were designed for 9 players and I remember strongly that doing those with 9 almost always got you 2-3 golden bags. I can't understand that a lot of times less than 20 players results in no golden bag at all. This game was grindy on live did you do something wrong on the coding or is this intended.
+Also strange on lock rewards

It's a MMO. What did you expect?

5) Telling us this is Alpha: Yes I get it alpha there will be bugs there could be roll backs or wipes. Okay fair enough but wait the loot system was always like that did I misinterpret bug because I'm pretty sure that RNG based model triggering if you are close to the PQ is exactly what you coded. So this really isn't a bug and I don't like it if you take this alpha statement as excuse for everything. At least stand your point and say well we don't like how quick or unfair the loot system is and we wipe everything caused by it. Not just some "well it's alpha take it" line.

Sad that you feel that way, but that's how it is. Alpha doesn't just mean buggy. It means feature-incomplete. It means that any given implementation, from contribution all the way up to RvR design, is not final. It means that criticism of the user experience is not welcome because this isn't a complete game. Therefore, it is alpha, you will take it until we have the opportunity to do better, and if you can't take it, nothing is keeping you here.

6) Complaints: As you stated this is alpha so you should take complaints I know you work hard and don't get paid but it is your hobby I guess you like it otherwise you wouldn't do it right?
P.s Game testers normally get paid too, you are right there are normally less than several 1000 but testing something (even if it's a game) isn't free either keep that in mind too. You are also right that most of the people playing here never seen the bug report section but you still should accknowledge the work others are doing do write these bug reports. I guess without them you would have it harder to fix the game to that point you are happy with it. If you delete our effort we put in, there will be people being upset about it especially if there were other ways to deal with it.

I think that is about what came to mind while reading this thread on the train.

Ah, the good old "tester respect" argument.

I hate to repeat myself, so here's the short version:

- 99.9% of people are here because they want to play the game, not because they want to test
- 0.01% of people actually perform intensive testing
- The majority of complaints and reports from the 99.9% are motivated by self interest (my class is bugged, I got screwed by contribution, etc) rather than genuine intent to help, and as such are not worthy of placement on a pedestal
- Therefore the majority of people including yourself are not entitled to claim some kind of entitlement because you're overwhelmingly players rather than testers - a real QA tester's job is nothing like what most of you actually do, and the complaints we get over restarts, wipes and other signs of the alpha just prove it. Testers pressurizing developers over their development actions is the tail wagging the dog - and it's about time that stopped dead.

Thanks.

[Telen]

P.s Game testers normally get paid too, you are right there are normally less than several 1000 but testing something (even if it's a game) isn't free either keep that in mind too

You have to buy or pay to play those games

I still havent heard anyone explain why they were grinding in an alpha when they werent having fun. You speak as if your time is worth something. If you can waste it grinding and arent having fun its not. Youre wasting your own time no one elses.