2H Tanks: 9001th thread edition

[TenTonHammer]

The only SnB tank that is considred "op" is KOTBS and thats because the classes is superior group utility than every other tank in the game

[roadkillrobin]

With the stagger nerf i wouldn't call it op anymore. Having static buffs is kinda silly, but Chosen has that aswell. Chosen also have a really nasty wound debuff in S&B spec The tanks are pretty ballanced atm imo. They all bring something different to a group. Before it was just better to just only have KOTBS or Chosen in any situation. Thats not the case anymore.

[TenTonHammer]

will some one tell me how many wounds blast wave debuffs when you are sped just up to quake?

Im not buying all this comments of high wounds debuffs with chosnes who have 14 pts into discord when they know that they will be repecing and re allocating points later

[peterthepan3]

2-H tanks get around 10% more dps than SnB for comparable stats. SnB tanks receive about 10% less damage than 2H tank. It is a fair exchange.

Any other difference comes down to tactic choice and a couple abilities exclusive to each build. It's hard to see how the tactics and abilities exclusive to SnB tanks are so much better than the tactics and abilities exclusive to 2-handers that it requires the builds to be rebalanced.

HtL is a non-factor. If you think HtL makes SnB tanks better than 2H, you need to spend less time in keep doorways and learn how to play a tank.

maybe you should cross refrence before and stuff before you post sillyness like this

First and formorst yeah HTL matters, if you dont think its a good and useful ability then you obviously dont know how to use it properly


secondly 10% block and 68% parry is a LOT MORE thank just a 10% defense increase over suppression + 18 parry from renown

furthermore block can stop everything parry can only prevent melee dmg

next look at classes like BG and BO, neither of these classes have no tactic designed for just 2h or other classes like kotbs

and then your going to say that oppression blows and stuff is on par with tactics like mixed defenses or destined for victory

BO has Great Weapon Mastery in Brawler.

[TenTonHammer]

no need to really spec it for the rather ehhh

bonuses it gives

also YSMBD >>> GWBC

[Sizer]

2h tanks are definitely not "viable", in that if you want to make an optimal group you'd take one over s/b. Theyre viable in sub-optimal groups, just like rdps and cloth healers are, but that doesnt mean theyre balanced. But how to do that, i guess il just throw out some thoughts before the balance threads start.

FO: Would be a bad idea to change this, and as Azarael said, a tactic that is required for all builds should be made a toggle instead. I dont know if that means 2h tanks will be getting a toggle that will buff damage/debuff armor and FO will be removed, personally I dont think thats needed, as 2h tank damage is fine but they lack utility, but its an interesting idea.

Great weapon tactics: These have been mentioned, and i'll throw out my idea - Make them core and give to all 6 tanks, and change them to 10% parry and 10% strikethrough. Because if ST healing becomes more common, s/b tanks will become even more preferred, so 2h builds absolutely need more access to parry, and strikethrough would also help them land their cc on other tanks/mdps, which would be a big buff for utility. This might run into the above problem of making it a required tactic, but I dont think that would happen, people could forgo this in place of more utility if their healers can make up for the increased damage.

Unstoppable juggernaut: Someone mentioned this too and I think it would be neat to give it a different effect based on weapon, like - Reduces the cooldown on juggernaut to 20s. With a great weapon equipped, gives you a 25% speed boost for 3s after use, with a shield equipped, gives you immunity to roots/snares for 3s after use. Because as is I dont think anyone runs this in any tank build.

Guard - It was suggested to give 2h tanks taunt a guard "debuff", which is a great idea. Something small like a 10% reduction in guards effectiveness while taunt is active would be interesting. At the same time, I would suggest changing 2h tanks guard to a base 40% reduction. Which might seem contradictory in a thread about buffing 2h tanks, but if they are going to be the offensive utility tanks, then the defensive utility builds need some advantage besides simply blocking more guard damage.



Blackguards - They need a knockdown in their dps tree (if people disagree go whine in the thread about it), and they need a source of parry other than anger drives me, which is impossible to get in a dps build; i'd suggest adding 25 parry for 5s to filled with fury. They could also use a mirror of runic shield, which will be an unpopular idea as people hate mirroring, but still, as you cant get shielding anger in a 2h build, they need something to deal with magic, if not this then something else. Without those 3 they will never be remotely viable with a 2h on.

Chosen - Some suggested making destined for victory require either block or parry, which wouldnt fix the disparity, as youd never see a s/b chosen again. To prevent that youd have to give s/b builds something unique too, possibly a buff to oppression. Which would be complicated and probably needs its own thread. A simpler change would be to make relentless increase damage taken by the target by 10% while its channeled.

BO - Also run into the same problem with the morale tactic, which needs its own discussion. I will say that tree hit combo and the cd increaser need a 2h requirement, which is a big nerf to a mediocre class I know, and should wait til their s/bs specs get other buffs to compensate, but still, should happen eventually to give some advantage to going 2h.

Knight - As op as they are no one chooses a 2h knight over a s/b. A start would be to change myrmidias fury like relentless, and maybe buff staggering impact to include a 10% damage reduction so its not completely worthless. It would also be nice if encouraged aim gets a 2h req added to it, so both specs have a way to increase crit, and it would prevent s/b ones from buffing crit by 25% on their own (which everyone has to admit is just silly).

IB - Wouldnt change much, they are probably the only one people run in both specs in serious groups. If you wanted a buff for them grudge born fury would be it, as I dont recall anyone ever speccing it.

SM - They need so much work im not even going to bother. Still, if I had one wish it would be for eagles flight to finally be mirrored to suppression; I never understood the logic behind one class getting a 15s duration and another getting the same ability for 5s.

[sarcasmo95]

With a few exceptions 2h tanks dont do enough damage to warrant using the 2h over s/b. If you spec and gear yourself out the same way in both setups the difference really is marginal. Utility-wise many of the 2h do have different options and although some classes favor one over the other like the s/b knight or bg for the most part I think it evens out. The only problem I see is the 2h just doesnt hit hard enough to warrant the lack of avoidance.

Personally I love the idea of increased AA by tanks using a 2h. While everyone falls in love with the big crits any mdps worth a sh*t knows that a large portion of their dps comes from aa and their proc's. Why not give them an ability in the offensive mastery tree where it increases aa 50% for 10 seconds with a 20 second cd or something.

[thaligon]

Main issue when you play 2h tank is mobility and no acces to 2h only 'untility' (snb has HtL). I suggest add mdps Charge! ability with req. 2h weapon.

[arthur2k]

With a few exceptions 2h tanks dont do enough damage to warrant using the 2h over s/b. If you spec and gear yourself out the same way in both setups the difference really is marginal. Utility-wise many of the 2h do have different options and although some classes favor one over the other like the s/b knight or bg for the most part I think it evens out. The only problem I see is the 2h just doesnt hit hard enough to warrant the lack of avoidance.

Personally I love the idea of increased AA by tanks using a 2h. While everyone falls in love with the big crits any mdps worth a sh*t knows that a large portion of their dps comes from aa and their proc's. Why not give them an ability in the offensive mastery tree where it increases aa 50% for 10 seconds with a 20 second cd or something.

Wait until T4 m8, **** is goooin dooown!

[Wrathson]

lol Kagaz, from what i remember when you were in Freebooterz you never guarded anyone, you never followed the group. And you always ran of doing your own thing even when in group.
I wouldn't advice anyone to use that a good example of how to play a 2hander Black Orc.

My guard rarely worked.

I often LOST the group because my map rarely worked and peeps rarely responded whenever i asked for a location.