Shaman Discussion, more

[Penril]

for me is clear that only nekkma really know what he is talking about
by spaming gheal you can keep constant rb uptime which reward mindless gheal spam
if changed to proc on hots rb will still have constant uptime but instead of mindless gheal will reward ST healing.
That is the main difference you want to reward mindless group heal spam or ST heal
both ways RB could be up 100% of the time so nothing changes beside giving players more iniciative to use ST heals aka hots!

ps the free gcd that rb would give you by procing from hots is how you make the hybrid nature of shamans matters at all.

This is BS. Only bad Shamans spam group heal for RB procs, without doing anything else. Their groups still die in these situations. Good Shamans otoh pre-hot everyone and their mothers before engaging in combat (therefore losing almost no AP). Good Shamans also cleanse constantly, so add Green Cleanin' and that's another HoT that could proc RB.

Also, do Shamans actually slot RB? There are so many tactics i would choose over it (auto detaunt, RUN AWAY, Extra special Mushrooms, Green Cleanin, Gork Fixd It, Dat Makes me dizzy, and later Ain't Done yet).

Honestly i don't know why people complain so much about AP; with some +AP on gear and smart use of AP drain (i.e. not on tanks with +45% disrupt) i have no problems even when spamming heals like a mofo. We had a 6v6 that lasted around 20 minutes the other night, and our Shaman had ZERO AP issues. Don't tell me "yeah but in T4..." because it will be SEVERAL months before we get there, and even then things might change.

I stand on my position that Shaman/AM healing and DPS specs are fine (just hard to master). However their life-taps could use some AoE love.

[Nekkma]

I agree with you Penril. The shamans strength is not to gheal and thus RB should not be used if you have another competent healer in your group to cover those. And the ap situation will only get better in t4 as the better ap pots means 80 % return of ap pool per pot compared to the present measly 50ish percent.

The argument is more on the level of principles. Promoting mindless gheal spam while at the same time not having the same tactic working for the "proper" way to play a shaman is kind of strange in my opinion. I would personally like to see it changed to favour single target healing over gheal. Then again, even with such a change, the shaman has many great tactics and it would by no means be a mandatory tactic.

[Penril]

I don't think RB promotes gheal spam, but i guess we can agree to disagree on that one.

[bloodi]

I don't think RB promotes gheal spam, but i guess we can agree to disagree on that one.

I tried man but its like talking to a very biased, blind, half deaf and stubborn brick wall.

They just keep saying it and thats it.

[Gobtar]

I don't think RB promotes gheal spam, but i guess we can agree to disagree on that one.

I tried man but its like talking to a very biased, blind, half deaf and stubborn brick wall.

They just keep saying it and thats it.

First of all there is no reason to be snide, RB is one of a couple different reasons why Healers will prefer Gheal over a Single target heal. Others being, that the Single target heal has a high chance of delay, is limited to LOS, and only heals one target. Downside is lesser range, and a little bit more AP. The fact that RB triggers more often means there is less of a opportunity cost, and with the added RB proc a healer feels like he can accomplish more.

Once the hots are up you have to decide if you are a reactionary or proactive healer. If you are waiting to see who takes damage to switch to that target and only starting the heal them, you aren't saving anyone as a Shaman, to be Proactive you need to load a group heal in, switching to the focus for bubbling and focus healing as need be, taking breaks for Hots. There is many reasons why the game promotes GHeals and why so many players consider WP/Dok to be the best healers in the game because they have great GHeals (I personally think it's RPs but thats cause I am really spoiled by amazing healers)

I personally think having the High set-back on single target big heals is a mistake, because it promotes using GHeals as a single target Direct heal. Despite it eating a tactic, Wild Healing would be welcomed.

I was also one of the first people to say that I think RB may be an OP implementation if changed.

@Penril: Just because you think they are fine, doesn't mean they could use some fixing. There is a reason why a common shaman maxim was "AP problems? That's fixed with Sov"

[Penril]

@Penril: Just because you think they are fine, doesn't mean they could use some fixing. There is a reason why a common shaman maxim was "AP problems? That's fixed with Sov"

Of course. That is only my opinion.

Never heard of that maxim though...

[bloodi]

First of all there is no reason to be snide

The reason i am snide is because is spent 2 pages explaining why RB on hots its broken and instsead of adressing it, i get people saying **** like this:

for me is clear that only nekkma really know what he is talking about
by spaming gheal you can keep constant rb uptime which reward mindless gheal spam

If i am wrong in my math or in my argument, tell me where i am wrong, just dont repeat the same **** over and over when i already debunked it enough.

I will stop being an asshole snide when people start trying to argument and rationalize their points instead of looking for people to agree with them.

I was also one of the first people to say that I think RB may be an OP implementation if changed.

I know you were but we also have people who repeat "RB ONLY PROMOTES GHEAL USE" or arguing that somehow the amount recovered in hots is irrelevant over and over and expect that to be an argument, is not.

Thats who i am snide towards.

[Gobtar]

@Penril: Just because you think they are fine, doesn't mean they could use some fixing. There is a reason why a common shaman maxim was "AP problems? That's fixed with Sov"

Of course. That is only my opinion.

Never heard of that maxim though...

I heard variations of it over the years, it all but went away with 1.4.8 and easy access to Sov. I knew of alot of RR100 healers who would be hard pressed to get rid of the Sov AP proc. I been wanting to play a Shaman on here again, but not sure I will until Destroy Confidence is gone forever, so many disheartening moments came from that tactic. Shamans are a real blast in tier 3!

Even if it's not the best healer, there is alot to like about the shaman, I hope this discussion will bear some fruit.

@Bloodi: that's fair...well sorta.

[bloodi]

I gotta say that "ap problems" was never an issue for me as AM or something i heard shamans complain about much.

But part of it was probably because every single one of us was crying for peels in VOIP most of the time.

@Bloodi: that's fair...well sorta.

Thats my life motto.

[Gobtar]

I gotta say that "ap problems" was never an issue for me as AM or something i heard shamans complain about much.

Wild Healing is the Healing Shaman's wet dream haha!