[Split] Marauder discussion

[bloodi]

What would you call balancing for SC play, then?

Well, not "balance around top end 6vs6" i hope.

People who care enough to do that will do that whether or not you balance the game for their level, and either way can be told to L2P, because it's the truth. If you care enough to whine, you care enough to know that you lost because you weren't good enough to play to potential.

I don't expect this game to manifest outrageous PUG imbalances anyway, because a) it's a team game so averaging composition will mask them out and b) there's just not enough potential for them. It's already been pointed out that the skillcap for playing any individual class is low in this game, so how bad can anyone who cares to try really be?

Yeah people can be told to l2p but having a moral victory does nothing for you, your game or your players. As i said everyone talks about how great Virtua fighter was, no one plays it however, that is the problem.

And how bad people who try can be? Well, colosally bad, like, really really really bad. Like, here is an article from Valve about their dota matchmaking:

http://de.dota2.com/2013/12/matchmaking-2/

If you are above 2200, you are better than 50% of the dota playerbase. Yet anyone who is below, 4.5k is usually considered trash by the community standars, hell, sometimes anyone below 5.5k.

And this people are trying. Really hard.

[Coryphaus]

To take that one step further slayers can spread out massive undefendable damage using ID and furthermore they can (last time i checked), safely drop their rage even when their disabled with rampage

Also giouttine is a 10s cd attack that can be defended against

[theOdinS0n]

Ungrin I haven't seen one change idea out of you this whole thread. All you do is yell NERF or OVERPOWERED MARA without offering one fair change. When ever someone disagrees you either get defensive or troll harder. Your bias is so overwhelming that it's hard to believe that you actually care about the game and you're not just here to make RVR easier for you.

I will fully admit that I play a marauder and I'm biased towards them not receiving unfair nerfs, but come on one ability that is supposed to function as a finisher is not proof that marauders have crazy burst.

You keep saying they are leads and bounds above MDPS but nobody here thinks marauders are better then slayers. Anyone looking at this game objectively thinks that WL need a buff/compete rework of the mastery path, and you can't tell me that WH are inferior to Marauders when they have two completely different roles.

[foof]

To take that one step further slayers can spread out massive undefendable damage using ID and furthermore they can (last time i checked), safely drop their rage even when their disabled with rampage

Also giouttine is a 10s cd attack that can be defended against

And guillotene is also directly mirrored in Cull the Weak.

That being said, it isn't like Marauders don't do good damage or don't have decent burst damage. They do, but it is still the worst out of all the MDPS classes. Compared to tanks, sure they do great burst. I'm not in any way shape or form trying to deny that Marauders are a solid class capable of doing damage, but they also don't exist in a vacuum.

As I stated above. I honestly think much of the issue with Marauders comes with the WL having some very odd design and balance flaws, rather than the Marauder being out of whack.

[Ungrin]

I'm not going to get baited into a troll argument so let's just take apart each class and do it comparatively and work it at through power group formats ( Which existed on live. We fought them in 6v6's and in RvR settings.)

You can argue which Group format was considered top tier but for general reasons, everyone agreed as such:

Order:
1 KoTBS
1 Ironbreaker
2 Slayers
2 Warrior Priests

Destruction:
2 Chosen
2 Marauders
2 Disciple of Khaines

No competitive group ran white lions, except maybe lednail's group, but stats-wise, they actually lost a little over half their fights.

Now, let's compare WL's to Marauders:

Marauder's Cookie cutter build:
http://waronlinebuilder.org/#career=mar ... 7:;0:0:0:0:

One could also make an argument to change out Piercing Bite for Brute Force, others would say you get capped on strength very easily on marauder and so Brute Force is unneeded and could be switched out for Piercing Bite. Regardless, that's usually the spec people played, and pumped up their WS for their AA's to hit really hard.

This build Usually means that the person ran around in Savagery, Debuffed their opponent, quickly switched to Brutality, and executed. This was seen mostly on Badlands as the EU server was heavily defensive and most groups ran and kited instead of fought toe-to-toe like we did on the NA server.

The White Lion's build:
http://waronlinebuilder.org/#career=wl; ... 8:;0:0:0:0:

As well as this, obviously, others ran similar to slightly different build, but to build for optimum damage this is what people usually ran. Lednail ran full strength because her reasoning was "I don't attack tanks." while someone like Kymix, he can correct me if I'm wrong, ran higher WS because he liked his AA's to get through more armor on all his victims.

I will bold which tactic wins in each case:
This means that:

Marauder:
1. Growing Instability - 50% Crit Tactic - Who wouldn't love this. Doesn't need a pet for it. This wins.
2. Piercing Bite - 50% armor penetration - Wow, talk about free stats... This could be subbed for Brute Force, but seeing as how easily the Marauder can hit soft cap on his strength, there's really no reason to run Brute Force. This wins outright.
3. Flanking - 15% damage buff (from rear or sides) - Both careers run this. Tie.
4. Feeding on Fear - 20% crit tactic - Was bugged on live, still worth taking on RoR. This wins.

White Lion:
1. Pack Synergy - 50% Crit Tactic - Great tactic. Too bad you need a pet active for it. Pet dies, huge loss to DPS.
2. Pack Hunting - This brought your AA speed in line with the marauder (who dual wielded.) This means the marauder did not have to spec for the speed of his AA's while the WL had to spec to just be as fast as the marauder.
3. Flanking - 15% damage buff (from rear or sides) - Both careers run this. Tie.
4. Brute Force - Main stat tactic - Needed for WL as he has no Piercing bite tactic

The marauder although maybe not as mobile as the WL, doesn't need to be. It can pull. This pull is also not based on the pet so the only chance for it to fail comes from either a disrupt (which while possible is still less than the pet dying when the WL goes for the pull). This means that the Marauder can pull people TO him rather than put himself into harms way. This is a massive advantage.

The marauder also gets the melee debuff, wherein the melee gets hurt everytime they attack the marauder.
The marauder also gets a disarm, while the WL gets one as well, it's based on the pet.
The marauder also gets an interrupt, non-specced and not on a pet, this means the WL must have a pet out AND must spec for the interrupt. Marauder trounces the WL yet again.

I can go on, it's just pointless. You get the idea.

[Euan]

Why would you ever run 2 Marauders? Thats bad. 2 Slayers to keep up Shattered limbs but 2 Marauders? Why. Lol.

I think people just repeat what they hear about Marauders. Don't even know how they actually work.

[Bretin]

confirmed NA build, jez

[Ungrin]

Why would you ever run 2 Marauders? Thats bad. 2 Slayers to keep up Shattered limbs but 2 Marauders? Why. Lol.

Ask SY and Aluba Shrimp, two of the best destro builds to every play on BL why they ran 2 marauders. Because Marauders were freakin OP son.

Also, I don't see a counter-argument. I figured we were going to have a discussion, not a troll-fest. I mean I pointed out exactly why Maras were overall better DPS than WL's, choppas/slayers, or WE's/WH's. WE's and choppas are just not survivable enough, and Marauder's could hit like trucks and are still insanely survivable. Considering every slayer ran full WS, going monstro significantly gimped the slayer's damage on their pushes.

I mean go on, I'd rather have a discussion than someone to just say "lol that's bad tho" and give no counter to what I've said.

[Euan]

Why would you ever run 2 Marauders? Thats bad. 2 Slayers to keep up Shattered limbs but 2 Marauders? Why. Lol.

Ask SY and Aluba Shrimp, two of the best destro builds to every play on BL why they ran 2 marauders. Because Marauders were freakin OP son.

Was that at RR100? Because we're not using that gear.

[Ungrin]

Why would you ever run 2 Marauders? Thats bad. 2 Slayers to keep up Shattered limbs but 2 Marauders? Why. Lol.

Ask SY and Aluba Shrimp, two of the best destro builds to every play on BL why they ran 2 marauders. Because Marauders were freakin OP son.

Was that at RR100? Because we're not using that gear.

Yes, this is based on end-game. Even at RR 80 Marauders held significant damage over other DPS, if we are talking about pre-nerf Def-Sov mDPS gear.