Return of Reckoning

I feel like most stealth players don't even remotely understand how powerful of a tool stealth really is. Go solo roam on a regular mdps for a few days and you'll quickly understand that being able to avoid entire grps/wbs or even unfavorable encounter is quite literally a cheatcode. That fact has to be considered when balancing the class and you can't have a class which can do that AND also has a no counterplay KD out of stealth AND can kill unprepared targets in one CC AND also has the option to disengage at any moment (twice, selfpunt stagger and instant stealth) AND can also play entirely defensively with defensive/regen gear while still doing threatening damage.

Before anyone responds with made up arguments: I used to play WE on live and WH here for a while (before they were buffed) and it's genuinely pathetic how easily you can escape/avoid fights. After farming literally in front of WC for an entire night quite some time ago I have never logged into it again. No idea how people can justify a class being this powerful or even claim they are weak. Also lmao at people saying they take knowledge or skill to play (not like any class in this game does anyway), every encounter is quite literally the same. And don't even get me started on WE being impossible to kite since they received a slowing and resetting leap so you can't even disengage anymore.

Shieldslam wrote: Mon Jun 01, 2026 11:26 am I feel like most stealth players don't even remotely understand how powerful of a tool stealth really is. Go solo roam on a regular mdps for a few days and you'll quickly understand that being able to avoid entire grps/wbs or even unfavorable encounter is quite literally a cheatcode. That fact has to be considered when balancing the class and you can't have a class which can do that AND also has a no counterplay KD out of stealth AND can kill unprepared targets in one CC AND also has the option to disengage at any moment (twice, selfpunt stagger and instant stealth) AND can also play entirely defensively with defensive/regen gear while still doing threatening damage.

Before anyone responds with made up arguments: I used to play WE on live and WH here for a while (before they were buffed) and it's genuinely pathetic how easily you can escape/avoid fights. After farming literally in front of WC for an entire night quite some time ago I have never logged into it again. No idea how people can justify a class being this powerful or even claim they are weak. Also lmao at people saying they take knowledge or skill to play (not like any class in this game does anyway), every encounter is quite literally the same. And don't even get me started on WE being impossible to kite since they received a slowing and resetting leap so you can't even disengage anymore.

So if a WE self punts and goes stealth, means they have not used their stealth yet.

Instant stealth is literally only 3 seconds.

Almost all classes are over stacked with cc. Instead of using your cc to kill, you can use it to cc to get away.

Resetting leap requires use of another ability. Trust me, every WE would give it up for 100% parry (repel blasphemy).

As far as regen goes, it appears it's ok for all classes but the WE. That spec for WE does not do great spike damage but relies on dots.

Shogun4138 wrote: Mon Jun 01, 2026 12:00 pm

Shieldslam wrote: Mon Jun 01, 2026 11:26 am I feel like most stealth players don't even remotely understand how powerful of a tool stealth really is. Go solo roam on a regular mdps for a few days and you'll quickly understand that being able to avoid entire grps/wbs or even unfavorable encounter is quite literally a cheatcode. That fact has to be considered when balancing the class and you can't have a class which can do that AND also has a no counterplay KD out of stealth AND can kill unprepared targets in one CC AND also has the option to disengage at any moment (twice, selfpunt stagger and instant stealth) AND can also play entirely defensively with defensive/regen gear while still doing threatening damage.

Before anyone responds with made up arguments: I used to play WE on live and WH here for a while (before they were buffed) and it's genuinely pathetic how easily you can escape/avoid fights. After farming literally in front of WC for an entire night quite some time ago I have never logged into it again. No idea how people can justify a class being this powerful or even claim they are weak. Also lmao at people saying they take knowledge or skill to play (not like any class in this game does anyway), every encounter is quite literally the same. And don't even get me started on WE being impossible to kite since they received a slowing and resetting leap so you can't even disengage anymore.

So if a WE self punts and goes stealth, means they have not used their stealth yet.

Instant stealth is literally only 3 seconds.

Almost all classes are over stacked with cc. Instead of using your cc to kill, you can use it to cc to get away.

Resetting leap requires use of another ability. Trust me, every WE would give it up for 100% parry (repel blasphemy).

As far as regen goes, it appears it's ok for all classes but the WE. That spec for WE does not do great spike damage but relies on dots.

You dont intend to say that you dont know how to reset ANY 1v1 fight you're losing, do you?

Wont comment about other stuff tho, im totally fine with lengthy stealth, damage & regen as long as those can potentially be countered (which they can)...which is totally not the case with fight resetting capability.

Sanctific wrote: Wed Jun 03, 2026 1:21 pm

Shogun4138 wrote: Mon Jun 01, 2026 12:00 pm

Shieldslam wrote: Mon Jun 01, 2026 11:26 am I feel like most stealth players don't even remotely understand how powerful of a tool stealth really is. Go solo roam on a regular mdps for a few days and you'll quickly understand that being able to avoid entire grps/wbs or even unfavorable encounter is quite literally a cheatcode. That fact has to be considered when balancing the class and you can't have a class which can do that AND also has a no counterplay KD out of stealth AND can kill unprepared targets in one CC AND also has the option to disengage at any moment (twice, selfpunt stagger and instant stealth) AND can also play entirely defensively with defensive/regen gear while still doing threatening damage.

Before anyone responds with made up arguments: I used to play WE on live and WH here for a while (before they were buffed) and it's genuinely pathetic how easily you can escape/avoid fights. After farming literally in front of WC for an entire night quite some time ago I have never logged into it again. No idea how people can justify a class being this powerful or even claim they are weak. Also lmao at people saying they take knowledge or skill to play (not like any class in this game does anyway), every encounter is quite literally the same. And don't even get me started on WE being impossible to kite since they received a slowing and resetting leap so you can't even disengage anymore.

So if a WE self punts and goes stealth, means they have not used their stealth yet.

Instant stealth is literally only 3 seconds.

Almost all classes are over stacked with cc. Instead of using your cc to kill, you can use it to cc to get away.

Resetting leap requires use of another ability. Trust me, every WE would give it up for 100% parry (repel blasphemy).

As far as regen goes, it appears it's ok for all classes but the WE. That spec for WE does not do great spike damage but relies on dots.

You dont intend to say that you dont know how to reset ANY 1v1 fight you're losing, do you?

Wont comment about other stuff tho, im totally fine with lengthy stealth, damage & regen as long as those can potentially be countered (which they can)...which is totally not the case with fight resetting capability.

WLs reset fights constantly. Engis have so much cc they can reset fights. RPs have more than enough to reset fights. SWs can stance dance across a map and reset fights.

Sanctific wrote: Wed Jun 03, 2026 1:21 pm

Shogun4138 wrote: Mon Jun 01, 2026 12:00 pm

Shieldslam wrote: Mon Jun 01, 2026 11:26 am I feel like most stealth players don't even remotely understand how powerful of a tool stealth really is. Go solo roam on a regular mdps for a few days and you'll quickly understand that being able to avoid entire grps/wbs or even unfavorable encounter is quite literally a cheatcode. That fact has to be considered when balancing the class and you can't have a class which can do that AND also has a no counterplay KD out of stealth AND can kill unprepared targets in one CC AND also has the option to disengage at any moment (twice, selfpunt stagger and instant stealth) AND can also play entirely defensively with defensive/regen gear while still doing threatening damage.

Before anyone responds with made up arguments: I used to play WE on live and WH here for a while (before they were buffed) and it's genuinely pathetic how easily you can escape/avoid fights. After farming literally in front of WC for an entire night quite some time ago I have never logged into it again. No idea how people can justify a class being this powerful or even claim they are weak. Also lmao at people saying they take knowledge or skill to play (not like any class in this game does anyway), every encounter is quite literally the same. And don't even get me started on WE being impossible to kite since they received a slowing and resetting leap so you can't even disengage anymore.

So if a WE self punts and goes stealth, means they have not used their stealth yet.

Instant stealth is literally only 3 seconds.

Almost all classes are over stacked with cc. Instead of using your cc to kill, you can use it to cc to get away.

Resetting leap requires use of another ability. Trust me, every WE would give it up for 100% parry (repel blasphemy).

As far as regen goes, it appears it's ok for all classes but the WE. That spec for WE does not do great spike damage but relies on dots.

You dont intend to say that you dont know how to reset ANY 1v1 fight you're losing, do you?

Wont comment about other stuff tho, im totally fine with lengthy stealth, damage & regen as long as those can potentially be countered (which they can)...which is totally not the case with fight resetting capability.

Stealth classes are control classes. This is a feature. You should be rewarded for tight play. It's not an issue of balance. You have to hold kd and dots back to even pull it off, + have stealth actually available with the prereqs. This is such an overblown topic.

Shogun4138 wrote: Wed Jun 03, 2026 5:55 pm

Sanctific wrote: Wed Jun 03, 2026 1:21 pm

Shogun4138 wrote: Mon Jun 01, 2026 12:00 pm


So if a WE self punts and goes stealth, means they have not used their stealth yet.

Instant stealth is literally only 3 seconds.

Almost all classes are over stacked with cc. Instead of using your cc to kill, you can use it to cc to get away.

Resetting leap requires use of another ability. Trust me, every WE would give it up for 100% parry (repel blasphemy).

As far as regen goes, it appears it's ok for all classes but the WE. That spec for WE does not do great spike damage but relies on dots.

You dont intend to say that you dont know how to reset ANY 1v1 fight you're losing, do you?

Wont comment about other stuff tho, im totally fine with lengthy stealth, damage & regen as long as those can potentially be countered (which they can)...which is totally not the case with fight resetting capability.

WLs reset fights constantly. Engis have so much cc they can reset fights. RPs have more than enough to reset fights. SWs can stance dance across a map and reset fights.

I sincerely tried to be objective and considered EVERY class you've mentioned in terms of countering and, well...every class you mentioned (and those which you havent) are counterable, one way or another.

For example - lions' pets can be killed super fast (one of the ways to counter WL resetting the fight), engis can disable/punt you, yeah, but if you are ready for that - that attmept to flee/reset wouldnt have a meaningful effect (keep them slowed down at all time with max "freshness" of the timer, be midndful of the environment & position yourself correctly before the punt).

SWs...are you even serious here? Those guys die like moths, they are VERY far from being effective solo all-rounders. And again, their leap back, KD and m1 are quite easily predicted (in terms of KD - that thing doesnt even need to be predicted, aura addon will tell ya when KD is about to come) and can be "mechanically" countered. So many times i screwed their leaps on my, for example, solo tanks by simply predicting the leap, saving gcd, watching animation and using punt during leap...the effect is disappointing for SWs ;p On my rdps soloers - i consider SWs as free frags too. Aint the best example you've made there with SWs

RPs - well, with the current state of the game they dont need to reset stuff, they will simply kill ya, simple as that...but, as a zeal player myself who runs shock build - i know quite well how to counter that as well, depends on a class ofc & state of a fight, but still, can be countered (and dont forget that shock/binding can as well be disrupted!).

And again, all other classes, to even try to reset a fight, certain conditions must be met for them to do it, mostly lack of immunities and lack of dots. It is NOT the case with WE/WH which can initite reset at any given point of time and if they are skilled - immunities/dots etc wouldnt even remotely be an issue for them to succeed with that.

Now, my point is - WH/WE reset capability can NOT be countered, which aint normal. Like, literally, there is no mechanic to counter that. Combination of flee+ap pot+self punt (even vs immune target, and self punt can NOT be prevented, cant be parried/disrupted)+micro stealth+juking using environment (if required)+ followed by proper stealth - that combo can NOT be countered, mechanically & theoretically if executed by a practised stealther. The lack of even theoretical counter to that (well, bringing a friend doesnt count) - thats what makes it an issue in my eyes.

P.S: The only zone where, environmentally, resetting vs immune target would be super hard- would be TM, near destro WC (sorta opposite vector of movement than the one leading to BOs), but then...how many people even go in that direction and why would they want to lol? The rest of the zones - even visually "flat" ones like eataine or CW - they are full of enivironmental nuances which may be used for juking vs immune target to wait out untill stealth is ready (unless you're a def-oriented, regen sov WE...in which case, if you're losing a fight - your stealth has been ready to use for ages by the time you decided to reset an encounter thus no juking whatsoever is required).

Just make it so they have to stand still to enter stealth.

There are still plenty of options available to escape if you are smart.

By the way, I really hope they adjust the punt from stealth.
Being "punt" while defending a keep sends you flying to a place where your resuscitation can't reach,
and that alone significantly reduces our fighting strength.
I hope they adjust the punt distance, or make it impossible to do so while stealthed.

ponko22 wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2026 9:01 am By the way, I really hope they adjust the punt from stealth.
Being "punt" while defending a keep sends you flying to a place where your resuscitation can't reach,
and that alone significantly reduces our fighting strength.
I hope they adjust the punt distance, or make it impossible to do so while stealthed.

You can't punt from stealth. Its an armor bonus from Sov gear.

Shogun4138 wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2026 11:45 am

ponko22 wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2026 9:01 am By the way, I really hope they adjust the punt from stealth.
Being "punt" while defending a keep sends you flying to a place where your resuscitation can't reach,
and that alone significantly reduces our fighting strength.
I hope they adjust the punt distance, or make it impossible to do so while stealthed.

You can't punt from stealth. Its an armor bonus from Sov gear.

Whaaa?

I didn't know that.